Westministenders: Its Really Not Getting Any Better Is It?

[RedToothBrush]

We are STILL on collision course for no deal.

Christmas is here, and whilst we might appreciate the respite from Brexit News, its really a luxury we can't afford.

The meaningful vote is scheduled for January.

Chaos is scheduled for shortly after.

I wish you all a happy and enjoyable Christmas.

DGR
It certainly plays into the wrong hands.
People with money to invest (despite tariffs to the EU) to set up new 'industry' so they can take on UK labour with rules similar or less demanding than the EU. A bit like the slave owners of the past living in the Caribbean, but in reverse.

{Î don't expect the EU to remain "in aspic"}
I first read that as Harpic, and wondered why it needed a good clean and to get rid of limescale.

GD12
That piece by Robert Preston is how I read the EU paper. It is a 'soft edge' hard withdrawal, allowing the EU to pull out as quickly as it can manage without causing a partial vacuum. Yes the UK will be paying tariffs from 30 March but crucially the fact that although 9/12 months is the MAXIMUM time for this (I presume the EU thinks it can get most of it's things completed in this bit of extra time) BUT the EU can withdraw this 'offer' at any time unilaterally. So if it has its act together in 3 months, it could call time then.
If only the UK had some negotiators in government rather than pantomime figures.

Bigchoc if the EU were to act as you suggest in any future Rejoin negotiation then I suggest it would make that a completely unsellable option in any future EU Ref in the UK.

In fact this is exactly the strategy of Gove and co. They don't like the WA but see it as a guarantee of Leaving with everything else up for grabs later.

1tis it would still mean chaos at ports and pretty big disruption.

Ultimately, the immigrant "problem" will never go away. Immigrants are a human expression of what is to governments "free money". They cost nothing to educate, and to get to a useful working age. Pop up in the UK and add to our GDP and help pay for our own young and old. And when they start being a drain on resources can be safely shipped back to bongo-bongo land at minimal cost to the shareholders UK taxpayer.

I defy anyone to tell me I haven't encapsulated the past 70 years of English economic policy in a paragraph.

The other great thing about immigrants, is by having a high bar for citizenship, you pretty much keep them disenfranchised and unable to do anything to better their situation.

GD12
Absolutely, it is very 'one sided' but as the UK are determined to do this, the EU has to protect it's members. Of course Brexiters will call it 'bullying', as indeed they were in the Daily Fail yesterday, but if it were a different country leaving the same people would be saying the EU is not being harsh enough.
The UK is attempting a form of suicide, and it is unreasonable to think that the EU would want to join in.

There is a good dissection of the EU Commission's no deal planning papers on R North's blog today.
Can't link unfortunately.

The plans are in place to avert the immediate consequences of some of the most catastrophic outcomes. But any idea that the EU has somehow capitulated on border and customs checks is nonsense.

I am still boiling about the ridiculous fuss around the Corbyn comment yesterday. But even more this morning about the obvious schoolboy lie he told. The faux outrage is just that, but for Christ's sake these people are supposed to be leading our country. North is as waspish as usual on that in his blog today too.

It's like we are gradually getting used to living in a climate where shocking incompetence, breathtaking ignorance and barefaced lies have become normal. Then suddenly the clouds part and sickening realisation and horror dawns all over again.

Yes folks, this is actually happening. It's not a nightmare or a script for a dark political satire rejected as too far fetched. It is actually happening.

We have a NI secretary so ignorant she admitted she did not know people in N I voted on partisan lines.
A Brexit secretary who didn't realise how reliant we are on Dover-Calais trade
An MP who tried to argue he as an Englishman, could travel to Ireland and apply for an Irish passport, and that Irish people resident in Ireland could vote in U.K. elections.

A Pm who - on top of everything else, seems to be trapped in some sort of robotic fugue state that brooks no compromise and a leader of the opposition better suited to a sixth form debate than exposing the decrepit shameful government for what it is.

Meanwhile, even now, when the facts must surely have percolated to even the dimmest - fewer than one in ten - one in ten - of our elected representatives have the guts to commit public ally to saying that no deal equals catastrophe.

I feel so trapped and powerless.

1tis,i agree.

Andrew Roth
@Andrew__Roth
Putin criticizes possibility of a second referendum on Brexit, saying the people have spoken. Adds if referendums repeated again and again: "Is this democracy?"

I am still boiling about the ridiculous fuss around the Corbyn comment yesterday. But even more this morning about the obvious schoolboy lie he told.

Seen elsewhere:

when he went back to explain himself he should have said "I did say stupid woman because it was infinitely more polite than calling her a fucking vile patronising and deceitful cunt which is what I actually meant" .

Yes to feeling trapped and powerless. It's truly awful.
I'm still reading these threads but somehow feel there's not much more I can say or contribute.
Doesn't help that I've also just got my p45.
Merry Christmas everyone!

When Putin feels he can lecture the UK on democracy, you know that it's the first trumpet of the apocalypse.

Maybe the conspiraloons were right about bar codes ?

Oh God quiet so sorry.

DGR I agree.

On a separate note the EU Commission document may not have addressed the Irish border but the Irish Government have also published their contingency plans which do.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46626100

Quietrebel
Very sorry to hear this .
Hope you can pick something else up soon.

Grinchly it is all so unbelievable, isn't it - I recognise the cold shock I feel when I realise it is all actually happening.

What I fail to understand is this: MPs are generally not that dim, and the best route to an easier form of meltdown is to cancel Brexit. My own MP has canvassed the electorate in the constituency and publicised figures (huge majority for a 2nd ref/people do not want Brexit here).

Why aren't all MPs doing the same, taking the figures they collect and making their choice as to what they support directly from that information? Party whips are surely over, party allegiances have to be dead by now, we've got a parliament full of individual MPs with constituencies that need representation!

Massive politics fantasy rant there, I know. I'm desperate.

I suppose strictly speaking the NI border is not really for the EU to comment upon as it is UK territory, beyond their assertion that there must be no physical boundary.
It would be like Trump telling Mexico to put the wall up to keep Mexicans in, rather than the US keeping Mexicans out.

@1tisILeClerc it is the EU's land border with the UK (obviously Gibraltar is too).

prunemerealgood
I agree there is something odd going on. Brexit has been on the cards for over 2 years but HoC and even cabinet are just not up to speed and are still spouting crap. Why do they appear so ill informed?
If water was dripping through your ceiling, you wouldn't just put a bucket under it or move your chair, you would go and find out WHY water is dripping, or am I being too logical?

Bellinisurge
Yes but at present their existing statement of no infrastructure holds sway and in the chaos of an actual no deal the losses, which would be mostly financial, would be minimal compared to the massive cost of everything else. They will have to smuggle a LOT of cattle to make a dent in the other losses and they have the right to change their stance afterwards anyway.

Quietrebel so sorry to hear your news

1tisILeClerc (great name btw, happy memories) It is also not making any sense to me. Unless, Malcolm-Tucker-style, the whips and spin doctors have got something on everyone...

I'm so disappointed in parliament. I know nobody believes it's filled with the great and the good but there are some solidly decent people there and they are mostly doing fuck all, comparatively, to actually stop this dunghill from rolling onwards.

I can only assume they are institutionalised and have lost the connection with reality that they really need. And that we really need them to have.

What I fail to understand is this: MPs are generally not that dim, and the best route to an easier form of meltdown is to cancel Brexit

If we credit them with not being dim, maybe there's some veracity in the supposition they are .... scared ? After all, 30-point headlines about traitors and enemies of the people would be intimidating to most but especially to people whose job places them in the public space, and given the horrific reality of Jo Cox' assassination. And their families.

At which point we reach an interesting dilemma. Would we prefer smart or brave MPs ?

Adam Fleming
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In which case, if the integrity of the single market is protected in a no deal scenario by applying strict checks at Irish ports on British goods going to the rest of the EU, then why do you need the backstop in the deal scenario? Just asking, happy to be educated on this.

Ireland’s no deal planning for trade in a nutshell: no hard land border and massively increased checks at ports and airports (which presumably will apply to U.K.-originating goods going on the rest of the EU). Landbridge protected by U.K. being in Common Transit Convention.

This was exactly what I suggested a couple of days ago to much ridicule as per .....