Westministenders: Its Really Not Getting Any Better Is It?

[RedToothBrush]

We are STILL on collision course for no deal.

Christmas is here, and whilst we might appreciate the respite from Brexit News, its really a luxury we can't afford.

The meaningful vote is scheduled for January.

Chaos is scheduled for shortly after.

I wish you all a happy and enjoyable Christmas.

We have decades of anger either way and we have half the population furious either way.

So we can have anger and resentment and a totally fucked economy or anger and resentment and a working economy. Anyone who would choose the former is an utter fool.

Etvoila we have already had a LOT of time in which nobody has done anything either wrt the EU or domestic policy. Much like a sticking plaster I would prefer politicians to get on with it. Even within business the view is increasingly that they want certainty.

The UK economy is 80% services - the WA does not cover any of this. For the other 20% the trade relationship is heavily in the EU's favour. I don't see any credibility in the argument that they will suddenly want to stop supplying us and to the extent that they do there are readily available domestic and rest of the World substitutes.

The WA isn't about the actual financial deal @howabout . If it doesn't really discuss financial services it's because that arrangement is still up for negotiations. The WA let's us have the negotiations on a final deal.
It's a shit WA, and Remain is a better deal but that ship has sailed. So WA is still better than No Deal. Open your eyes.

Remain ship hasn't sailed. It's an option that requires some bloody action and integrity from MPs and isn't currently looking likely but mood is shifting slowly and describing it as a ship that's sailed doesn't help the cause!

@Thegirlinthefireplace - I've blinked. We can't Remain . I don't want to play chicken over Revoke. I want to give in.

Give in if you want but don't lie to people. Say "I no longer want remain" but don't pretend it's not an option.

Hear hear thegirl.

I highly doubt we will get to remain. Our beloved politicians don’t have the courage to make it happen.

Our politicians don't appear to want WA or no deal either but we talk about them all because they are all three legally available possibilities.

The UK's main service is finance, is it not? So if we leave without a deal and become a 3rd country without the financial passport, will we not then see banks and financial services relocating to EU countries where they can do their work without extra red tape?

Hospitality also relies on tourism, with the UK screaming that it doesn't want foreigners I don't think we are going to see a surge in visitors any time soon.

There is nothing that the UK offers that cannot be relocated to other EU countries, we have such a high estimation of ourselves that we've become blind to the fact everything we built has been taken over by modern industries. Those industries will be facing tariffs, extra red tape, admin and costs so whilst it may cost them in the short term they are more likely to look at the big picture and relocate where they can to protect their interests in future. Especially in the case of no deal because there is literally nothing in place to facilitate them continuing to work as normal.

If we head down the no deal route we will lose a huge amount of our service sector as well as the small amount of trade we have. How would we get those back in future? Offering investment for companies to come here, lower taxes, abolish workers rights so we can pay peanuts?

It's a ludicrous proposition. We would be throwing our economy away with no plan to sort it out, we are simply not in a position to do this and it's already leading to downturn. The high Street has suffered its worst festive season in years, sales are down and online sales have fallen too. People are already being more cautious. In appeasing the likes of JRM, BJ and NF we are literally throwing away our future. The only people that will win if no deal goes ahead are the people with more money than they know what to do with, they won't be sticking around and topping up food banks once their pockets have been lined.

Even within business the view is increasingly that they want certainty.

How do they get that?

@Thegirlinthefireplace no lying from me. Take it easy with that term. I want to Remain. But I'm not prepared to endure this shit while we play chicken to force it. I would accept anything other than No Deal. Im in my fifties, I've seen lots of shit. I've lived and worked in a country which had terrible food shortages. We mustn't go there.
I am prepared to sacrifice what I want for what is least worst. WA is least worst.

A wee twitter quote on No Deal Project Fear.

"Project fear assumes that businesses (EU and U.K.) have not prepared for no deal until now. Many have and contingency plans are already in place. We’re not all as incompetent as the government."

Billinisurge - You said "that ship has sailed". It hasn't. You have given up on it, your prerogative. It hasn't sailed.

Yes @Motheroffourdragons , I know it just delays things. I know that WA is shit. But no deal on 29 March 2019 is much more shit.
I'm just me with my little family. I'm a prepper so I'm confident I can weather any no deal shock better than most but I would rather not have the shock.
Too many people are too bedded in with Leave nonsense to accept Remain but they might accept WA. They should never accept No Deal. It shouldn't even be an option. But it is .
Too many voices are falling for this "managed no deal " shit.

All the talk of how angry leavers will be if we remain is daft because I have no doubt that just as many remain voters will be just as angry if we crash out and that's without the anger of those that weren't given a vote and all those politically aware teenagers (of which my son is one) who have no say and are furious at what is being done to them without any say.

If you think leavers will be cross if we remain, wait until our children realise what's been done to them if we crash out!

@Thegirlinthefireplace I'm pleased your ds is both politically aware and angry.

Billinisurge He wants to move to Germany, and he has Irish citizenship so will be able to once he's adult. Our loss and Germany's gain if he does that,?i wouldn't blame him in the least.

Sorry, I've been very Randy this morning. I'm more cross than usual. I'm just sick of being on a perpetual state of cross and worried.

*ranty!!!! Not randy. That autocorrect did make me smile at least.

I agree with thegirlinthefireplace. Of the 52% Leave vote I would think only the hardcore UKIP contingent (about 5% of the electorate) really care about Leaving. However most of the other 47% voted for CHANGE not a decade of political paralysis.

Of the 48% I would again think less than 10% really care about the EU but prefer not to risk disruption. Increasingly they seem to recognise that CHANGE to the domestic agenda is necessary but would prefer it to be rationally debated and managed rather than a side-show to wrangling with the EU.

@Thegirlinthefireplace , we are hoping to get Irish citizenship for my dd (11) - her cousin has got it via the same route my Irish born mum (his granny). Application in with the Irish authorities. I want the world to be her oyster. EU citizenship will make that a bit easier.

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/19/british-economy-forecast-to-fall-in-gdp-ranking

7th and when the eu/italy resolve the current spat, (and they will) we'll drop to 8th - down to either brexit or tory incompetence - hard to call.