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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: Dear Santa for Christmas I'd like...

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 11/12/2018 21:37

The ERG to be the grinch that stole the Tory Party Christmas who ultimately get what they deserve.

To remain in the EU

Donald Trump's impeachment

For politics to be boring again

A trex toy for my son

OP posts:
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21
GD12 · 12/12/2018 13:47

Jedi, the only way out is to go back to the people. Parliament deadlock>back to the people.

GD12 · 12/12/2018 13:50

Isobel, Heidi Allen was saying they could earlier. Who knows though.

IsobelKarev · 12/12/2018 13:55

Jedi, the only way out is to go back to the people. Parliament deadlock>back to the people.

I agree with this. But I think it will be very much "a plague on all both their houses" for the two main political parties.

1tisILeClerc · 12/12/2018 14:03

Taken from SKY news website.
{IoD director general Stephen Martin said: "The last thing businesses needed today was even more uncertainty - and yet politics has managed to deliver on that once again.}
I think that calls for a glass of something in Westminster, at last a success!

JediJim · 12/12/2018 14:06

Another people’s vote in my opinion is the best option. And I voted leave. But I think it’s the only way to settle the debate once and for all. But then many are opposed to it, for democratic reasons.
After a people’s vote then there would have to be a general election so the political parties can produce their manifestos to reflect the result.
But... the UK exiting the EU is already written in law. Legally we are leaving.
Plus, there would be a lot of opposition to a second referendum. If TM offered a second referendum then she could have faced a vote of no confidence a lot sooner. TM has an impossible job. I actually feel for her, not a great fan of hers but I feel we could do a lot worse.

1tisILeClerc · 12/12/2018 14:06

Combined with Rolls Royce shifting large aircraft engine production to Germany, without worker relocation until Brexit gets clearer.
I would put 50 cents on them not coming back again. You don't shift that sort of infrastructure twice.

howabout · 12/12/2018 14:11

As I understand it, the Withdrawal Agreement is an International Treaty and therefore needs Government to sign and ratify. I don't think Parliament can force the Government to do this. Any future Government could also do a Trump and pull out of the Agreement.

The Gina Miller case turned on the impact on UK Legislation (The 1972 Act), rather than UK's relationship in Treaty Law with the EU. It didn't fetter the Government's ability to conclude / withdraw from International Treaties. I think this is why Grieve and co are finding it are finding it so difficult to get any sort of Amendment which actually does block No Deal.

Bearbehind · 12/12/2018 14:15

But then many are opposed to it, for democratic reasons.

I don’t believe they are opposed to it for democratic reasons; it’s the head bangers who are opposed to it because they know they will lose now it’s clear it’s going to be detrimental to the majority of the country.

1tisILeClerc · 12/12/2018 14:18

To me the greatest damage is not so much the legal stuff, important that it is, but in business trust between parties is paramount, and with all this twisting and backsliding going on whatever trust there was, which is probably considerable, is being chucked away.
It is not necessarily that the UK can't fulfill deals, it may become the case that the UK won't even get asked in the first place, or if they do, will have to jump bigger hurdles. While this does enter the territory of 'feelz' it is not unimportant. You can't force countries/suppliers to sell/deal with you.

GD12 · 12/12/2018 14:19

Being opposed to a vote for democratic reasons oxymoron.

howabout · 12/12/2018 14:25

JediJim your post very neatly illustrates what is wrong with a 2nd Referendum. If the vote is close again, both main Parties would surely just fudge the issue in their manifestos, or lie like the Tories, and we are back at 2016 / 2017.

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 12/12/2018 14:28

If May loses the new leader of Conservative party/ PM will be voted for by Conservative party members. They aren't accountable to the public like MPs are. They are just people who paid a membership fee (possibly because they hoped to vote in any upcoming leadership elections...)

If there are lots of candidates then Tory MPs vote to select two to go forward to the members. I can't imagine there will be many candidates though.

So our next PM at a really critical juncture may be chosen by a small number of paying Tory party members. Seems unfair.

1tisILeClerc · 12/12/2018 14:44

If there were to be a PV of any sort, it would have an advantage over a General Election if it was ONLY about the issue of staying or leaving the EU. That is one of the most crucial questions that needs a definitive answer at the moment. Adding other 'stuff' to a manifesto dilutes and confuses the issue. For example. one side saying (for example) £380 Million to the NHS and the other, properly funded rail links and housing regeneration, the result would not be clear cut with respect to Brexit.

PineappleSunrise · 12/12/2018 14:59

I think this time there would have to be a clear majority for the PV to count as a direction to the government. If there was no clear majority, there would have to be a government of national unity declared and a plan for the softest of soft Brexits*, so no-one truly got what they dreamed of but the economic fallout would be minimised.

*This assumes Norway would accommodate us, of course. If they didn't, we might just have to revoke and get on with making the best of things.

Violetparis · 12/12/2018 15:00

The 2016 referendum was supposed to resolve the issue on the EU once and for all. I don't see how another one can resolve the issue unless there is a massive majority for Remain or Leave which there isn't. Have no idea how the country gets out of this mess created by irresponsible politicians.

DGRossetti · 12/12/2018 15:03

The 2016 referendum was supposed to resolve the issue on the EU once and for all.

That's not quite true. The 2016 referendum was supposed to cement the position of the Tory party as the party of power 2020-2070.

They had one job ....

howabout · 12/12/2018 15:06

Grin DGR Ooops - and there in a nutshell you have why I voted Leave

GD12 · 12/12/2018 15:08

EU can't be any clearer now. twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072869508715401216?s=19

Violetparis · 12/12/2018 15:09

DGR should have mentioned that as well Grin

TatianaLarina · 12/12/2018 15:10

I think this time there would have to be a clear majority for the PV to count as a direction to the government

If we have a vote, which imo is a very bad idea, for God’s sake don’t set a threshold that nukes a small Remain majority.

If we can leave by a scrape we can damn well stay by a scrape.

1tisILeClerc · 12/12/2018 15:11

On a lighter note:
{A mishap at a German chocolate factory "repaved" a road with a thick, brown pathway after a ton of the sticky stuff escaped and flowed on to the street.

The spillage quickly solidified and around 25 firefighters in the town of Westoennen were forced to hack away at it with shovels.}
From SKY news.
Anyone seen BCF this afternoon?

TatianaLarina · 12/12/2018 15:11

and there in a nutshell you have why I voted Leave

And how has that panned out.

bellinisurge · 12/12/2018 15:13

Thanks @GD12 . Not pretty is it?

PineappleSunrise · 12/12/2018 15:13

The 2016 referendum was supposed to resolve the issue on the EU once and for all.

And instead it turned this once fairly stable, though increasingly (and worryingly) unequal nation into a squabbling basket case that can't even manage itself, let alone the superpower next door. How this is meant to help the "left behind" I can't fathom.

GD12 · 12/12/2018 15:15

bellinisurge. Nope.