Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

weetabix
What on earth was the point then of the referendum if you want the MPs to decide anyway?
It was to heal a rift within the top of the Tory party
we were all meant to be bystanders
so that Boris could take over from Cameron in number 10

Ok. I'll play. What concrete assurances can you give me if we remain

That’s not playing.

It’s deflecting. You answer my question.

Might be worth popping down to the bookies and putting a fiver on no Brexit , just saying

It’s deflecting. You answer my question.

I've answered tons of questions.

I'm guessing you won't answer because you can't answer.

No one can give concrete assurances.

750 posts in and still no plan, not one.fucking.plan. We are seriously screwed aren't we

Weightsandmeasures

If the decision had been that everyone in the UK should drink a little cyanide would you do it?
Make it a little less harsh, maybe cut one finger off.
Bit less harsh still, look at the issues around Brexit and acknowledge that apart from racism most was down to inequality and many 'deprived' areas across the UK.
Leaving with a 'no deal' will kill many. Not overtly, but old people not keeping warm because they can't afford it. Delayed operations in hospitals. Failure to diagnose things that can be cured.
The way the world actually works is far more complicated than most people realise and to disentangle from 40 years of complex negotiations within the EU will take a good 10 years. Just using 'WTO rules' sounds great, but the basic tariffs will be crippling to the UK economy, something like an average 10% rise in food costs, as long as you are vegetarian as meats attract much higher tariffs, 40% ?
The vote to leave was bloody stupid idea but since the government has humiliated the rest of the UK and is/has rejected the WA which is a 'working document' which could be altered AFTER the UK leaves the only other options are no deal, with all that will entail, or remain.
The UK has buggered about far too much and needs to leave.

Weightsandmeasures

Rather than continuing to whine about how nasty the EU are, they don't have to DO anything as it is the UK leaving. They would have been justified on receiving the A50 notice to just say 'OK fuc$ off then and shut the door quietly'. The UK only needs to negotiate if it wants to keep eating and avoid a civil war in NI.

All these ridiculous analogies are just that, ridiculous. Apply your same ridiculous analogy to general elections. The decision was not to drink poison or whatever extreme nonsense people can conjure up. It was to remain or leave the EU. People chose to leave. The vast majority of the works exist outside of the EU, small and large. They survive.

The majority of people chose to leave.

You can come up with all sorts of extreme analogies as to why democracy should be denied. I could come up with other extreme analogies as to why the UK should respect the vote and leave. What use is all these nonsense, inapplicable analogies? Leave or remain in the EU. The majority voted Leave. I'm just sick of this constant effort to overturn the decision. That is what I've turned I to a leaver.

I listen to LBC every day. Everyday you hear these analogies. I am sure they think they are changing people's minds. Little do they know.

Do Remainers really think they would win the vote if a second referendum was called? They are making the same mistake they did before the referendum; listening to the sound of their own voice and assuming the majority are with them.

I'm not whining about the EU. I'm only concerned about the vote being respected by all decision-makers. I would also vote Leave if there ever was another binary choice of leave or remain.

Well then parliament should have been allowed to vote tomorrow against the Deal.

The rest of the world is bigger than the EU

TheElement, do forgive me but I cannot engage with your logic. We have discussed this before. There's nothing more to say. If it pleases you, you are right. You make a lot of sense, just not to me.

How many countries in the world trade solely on WTO rules?

why democracy should be denied

Please, please stop saying this.

The referendum was advisory. Parliament, our sovereign parliament, is where decisions are made in the U.K. Parliament voting on a decision, one way or the other, is entirely democratic.

You can say it isn't time and again, but that doesn't make it true. You might want it to be true but it isn't.

Brexit voters get upset at being called stupid, but if you keep saying things that are factually incorrect then you do indeed appear to be stupid.

The referendum was advisory.

Fine. Except David Cameron made it very clear that leave means leave.

Renege on that now. Say that it was advisory. Watch where that takes the country.

Certainly from here on, every general election will have to be re run because the majority always loses in a general election - obviously that isn't fair is it? So in future the results of no elections can be acted upon cos you know, what about the losing sides? Do they just get ignored?

It’s not complicated.

Your suggested premise: The Will for Leave was not TM’s Deal because Reasons.

Proposed parliamentary vote was expected to be against TM’s Deal.

Ergo, those whose primary concern was supposedly the Will should have wanted parliamentary vote to go ahead. Because parliament voting against the Deal would have aligned with the supppsed Will.

{The vast majority of the works exist outside of the EU, small and large. They survive.}

You were promised prosperity, better than can be achieved within the EU.
The ERG says it might be achievable in 50 years, fully knowing that he will not be around by then unless he knows a good taxidermist.

Yes the world is bigger than the EU, but all countries have beneficial trade deals, the UK will have none.

Weightsandmeasures
Call up someone from the ERG, or Mrs May or anyone in the government and ask them for their spreadsheet that shows how the UK economy is projected to IMPROVE from where it is now (which is already worse than in 2016) and when it indicates break even and then decent growth. At the end of the day it is boring figures and details not 'feelz' because you can't go out and buy food with 'feelz'.

Except David Cameron made it very clear that leave means leave.

Which was a promise that he wasn't in a position to make, having a sovereign Parliament. No one bothered to call him out on that. He also said that he would stay on to implement the vote and cleared off within 24 hours.

Yup - ask Rees-Mogg for his spreadsheet - he says 50 years. I will be long dead by then.

Like I said, the Remain side is made up of the UK's most intelligent and vocal people. I'm now firmly with the SILENT majority.

Ooh, a Brexiteer admitting they're thick. Thanks @Weightsandmeasures for your candid statement. I am not one of the UKs most intelligent and vocal people but even I can see Brexit is going to fuck our economy.

@TheElementsSong

Regarding the number of countries in the world who trade solely on WTO. There is one (kind of).

Mauritania...

medium.com/@MrWeeble/who-actually-trades-solely-under-wto-rules-1b6127ce33c6

"For those of you not familiar with Mauritania, it’s GDP is $4,714million (0.2% of the UK’s), 50% of its exports consist of Iron Ore, and between 1% and 17% of the population still live in slavery.
It appears that this is the country that Leave.UK wish to emulate."

@Weightsandmeasures

By your logic, we shouldn't be leaving the single market.

We had a referendum on it in 1975. People chose it.

It's one and done, right?

Having leaving the single market on the table in 2016, by your own definition, was anti-democratic.

If a vote by the people overturned a previous vote by the same people, it's a complete contradiction in terms to say that wouldn't be democratic.

I don't even want a second referendum, I think it'd be opening Pandora's box. If you also don't want one, then fair enough. But come on... this anti-democracy argument is plainly nonsensical.

Nobody actually thinks Boris was pro-Brexit do they? I thought it was a fairly well known fact that he is actually pro-Europe, but took the Brexit side in order to further his own political career.

I've answered tons of questions
I'm guessing you won't answer because you can't answer

Er, I’ve not had a coherent concise answer on any question from you at all.

You know leaving offers nothing concrete because it’s a change from the status quo, a change which will be detrimental.

It just pains you to say it.

You know leaving offers nothing concrete
Yes, because the politicians have completely cocked up the negotiations.

In any election parties make promises as to what they will do if elected - no one expects the voters to produce plans as to how these manifesto promises can be achieved. The same here. I was asked if I want to stay in the EU - I said no. I wasn't asked to review complex legislation and trade agreements and then figure out a way for us to Brexit, that is the job of our elected politicians.

If it is this difficult to leave now can you imagine how much more difficult it will be in the future? How impossible it will be to leave when the EU start chucking their weight around and forcing us to do things that we don't want to?

They didn't cock up the negotiations. They didn't give you the things you wanted. It's not the same thing. Ask anyone who deals with a toddler's demands.