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Brexit

Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

999 replies

bellinisurge · 08/12/2018 14:26

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

OP posts:
Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:29

Did you not notice we were not part of the euro,. and had a vote in the European council and generally exercised our right to veto / amend proposals such as this??

Yes thanks I do know.

When do we exercise those vetoes? We seem to go along with things even to our own detriment just to stay in the club.

MissMalice · 09/12/2018 17:30

We seem to go along with things even to our own detriment just to stay in the club.

Such as when?

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:30

Weetabix,

General elections are different. If the Conservatives lie in their manifesto, and are convicted of spending too much money on campaigns illegally, and promise something they knew they could never deliver, then we can vote them out again - and even in the meantime, individual votes can be won and lost by constutuency MPs voting with or against their party.

A parliament with the type of tiny majority exemplified by the Brexit vote would be HUGELY influenced by those who voted against them - through negotiation behind the scenes and in the chamber of the House of Commons, by moderation of what they felt they could deliver, by having to work with those who are not natural bedfellows (see the current DUP issues).

The referendum, on the other hand, is binary. It cannot be reversed in the next election. It is therefore particularly important that it IS influenced by the 2/3 of the country who either didn't vote or voted against Leave.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:31

We should turn away soldiers? And leave the streets to descend into anarchy?
I do very much doubt that French forces couldn't cope with riots in one city and that anarchy was impending so why did they need an army from another country?

Under whose jurisdiction are those troops operating? French? Portugese? UN?

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:32

We seem to go along with things even to our own detriment just to stay in the club.

Could you give specific examples of these over the last, say, 10 years? Dates and details?

bellinisurge · 09/12/2018 17:33

@Weetabixandshreddies - so it's feelings rather than actual facts. Not a good reason to flush GFA down the toilet, is it?

OP posts:
MissMalice · 09/12/2018 17:34

Under whose jurisdiction are those troops operating? French? Portugese? UN?

Are you suggesting the Portuguese came in without French say so?

Might it be sensible to gather the facts from available sources before seeking to criticise?

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:35

Such as when?

Off the top of my head - us paying benefits to families of EU nationals. Why?

Allowing EU students to attend Scottish universities paying less than English students. Why?

teaandbiscuitsforme · 09/12/2018 17:36

Weetabix You're just getting wound up in Fail hysteria now. None of your points have any factual basis yet you refuse to listen to the people continuously replying with facts or asking for something to back up your POV.

jasjas1973 · 09/12/2018 17:36

If there were serious riots in London and the Uk army couldn’t meet the demand, should we turn away soldiers from other countries who want to help?

Err, yes

Thats a bit stupid, co-op in NATO helped fix the Balkans crisis and co-op on intel sharing has helped keep us safe from the worst of any ISIS attacks.

Obv our Police and Army could resolve almost any riot situation but what if we were overwhelmed with some sort of terrorist or cyber attack? we should refuse help from German or French forces? but presumably Americans perfectly ok?

Just as well we didn't turn away US forces, Polish airmen and French resistance operatives in 1939/40!

and people say Leavers cannot see the bigger picture? what a crazy idea lol!

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:39

Are you suggesting the Portuguese came in without French say so?
I have no idea who invited them in. None of my business but not something I want to see in the UK.

Might it be sensible to gather the facts from available sources before seeking to criticise?

And the last time I looked, this was still a free country and as such I am allowed an opinion. My opinion is that I don't want to see troops from a foreign army on the streets of the UK and if that is what remaining in the EU means then I don't want to be in it.

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:39

Do you think that soldiers - e.g. UN soldiers, drawn from different national armies - should never, ever work in any other countries, and never, ever under any generalship except their own national command?

Or do you think that there are some occasions when like-minded countries might come together to share resources to uphold the rule of law, protect the vulnerable or prevent catastrophe? Is it sensible, under those circumstances for there to be a singe clear line of command?

Do you think that sometimes, that group of like-minded countries might happen to all be European, andf that it might not be possible to get full UN backing for political reasons? Is there no reason whatever why those troops could come together? Or do you feel it is ALWAYS impossible for pan-national European resources to come together to work together for the common good or against a common enemy or to prevent a commonly-understood threat?

Is it acceptable, for example, for all European countries to share information about terrorists who might attack in the UK, even though the historical background of such information-sharing is military? Or is it ONLY acceptable for military intelligence to be purely British in origin?

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:40

jasjas1973

Of course. The Paris riots over the weekend were exactly on the scale of WW2

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:40

if that is what remaining in the EU means then I don't want to be in it

But conversely, if you are told that that ISN'T what remaining in the EU means, you are happy to remain?

MissMalice · 09/12/2018 17:41

I have no idea who invited them in. None of my business but not something I want to see in the UK.

So for all you know the French may have proactively asked for the Portuguese to support them but you’ve decided based on nothing that it’s the EUs fault and it’s bad?

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:42

cantkeepawayforever

Were the Portugese troops in Paris over the weekend under UN control?

And no, I don't think Europe should ever send troops in without UN authority.

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:43

Um, Weetabix - you do know that there are many US troops stationed in the UK and (shock) walking around the streets, don't you?

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:44

Weetabix,

Even where vested interests such as Russia and the Arab states mean that something that clearly 'needs' military intervention can't get UN authorisation?

jasjas1973 · 09/12/2018 17:44

@Weetabixandshreddies

Presumably you are also against UK border being France? and French border in UK ?

Unescorted · 09/12/2018 17:45

Weetabix all EU students pay the local rate. A Scottish student applies to the Student Awards Agency Scotland who pays their fees on their behalf. Other EU states also choose to pay the fees in Scotland. The UK government chooses not to pay the fees for English students studying in Scotland. This information is available with a simple Google search.

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:46

And you don't believe that the EU should share any intelligence with the UK that could help to prevent terrorist attacks, because the personnel who provide that intelligence might members of the military in other countries?

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:47

But conversely, if you are told that that ISN'T what remaining in the EU means, you are happy to remain?

I am not happy to remain because it will eventually lead to this.

The Euro cannot work with multiple countries sharing a currency, expecting to bail each other out but with no ability to control fiscal policy. This will inevitably lead to these countries having to integrate more and more until they merge into one.

As the EU gains more powers we will have to join in. We won't be able to stay as we are now.

I have my opinion. You have yours. I am not going to convince you (and I have no need to) and you won't convince me.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:48

Unescorted

I know the situation.

Why aren't the English treated as members of the EU in this regard?

cantkeepawayforever · 09/12/2018 17:49

(Sorry, by 'US troops', I should have specified that they are principally US air force personnel, but I don't think you are being particularly picky about the branch of the military? They are under US command, not UK command, but are present on the UK streets...)

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/12/2018 17:50

Um, Weetabix - you do know that there are many US troops stationed in the UK and (shock) walking around the streets, don't you?

Really? Where are US troops enforcing law on our streets in the UK?

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