Can I ask why if the British people were lied to on the campaign for the referendum you don’t want another vote?

[Inkspellme]

I’ve been curious about this question a good while and it often pops up in conversation in my house. I live in Ireland and in this country when we have a referendum we have the referendum commission to monitor it. It’s role is to post through several media types unbiased information about the choice presented to the voter. Every person in the country who is registered to vote receives this information. We also monitor the radio and tv coverage to ensure each side gets equal time to campaign for the result they want.

Which is why when I look at what happened in the British referendum I am amazed at how the information was presented to you.

It’s been acknowledged that you were lied to in the campaign. And yet now I hear your politicians talk of respecting the vote of the people when the people were given such little respect by them.

Why not a second referendum considering the first was influenced by false information. In Ireland it would have been challenged through the courts and likely to have been deemed necessary to redo. I know as a Republic we hold referenda very often so are much more experienced but I am still amazed at how the voters were treated.

But we probably shouldn't be to harsh on them - few people wanted war after the suffering that WW1 had caused and many of the politicians had fought in that war.

That is very true which is why I don’t understand why appeasement gets such a hard time - without the benefit of hindsight.

many of us loathe the EU

That's very clear - I had a debate on FB with my friend's Mum who is a very active anti EU advocate, she also hates the UN. Is that common too?

if you loathe the EU, what specific improvements are you expecting from Brexit ?

At the time of the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia, the UK wasn't ready for war, so it's debatable about how successful intervention would have been.

By 1939 I think it had been realised that war was inevitable, and the country was better prepared - e.g work had been done on nutrition to work out how best to feed people under rationing.

No in 1939 when Britain decided it was very much part of Europe and declared war to help Europe

Yes Chamberlain gets a lot of stick but it was he who put in the backstop that if Germany invades Poland, Greece or Romania we will defend you.

Can't really imagine May having that sort of foresight!

..and you know what? that makes me proud of the UK and the sacrifices that generation made and makes me v angry at these people who have allowed the UK to leave Europe, because that is essentially what we are doing .... & negating their sacrifices.

For those who are interested in how the country began to get ready for war, try listening to this
Radio 4 programme on how the war influenced the setting up of the NHS.

It drives me to distraction when posters and politicians reference WW2 as a reason to abandon Europe.

The lesson from WW2 seems to me that we should turn towards Europe. We are stronger together. Britain did not turn and run away we stood and fought.

Lots of times and events in British history that are dubious but September 1939 when we gave help and support to those in Europe fighting Nazis (of a variety of nationalities) is one of the things we can be proud of.

And now we want to isolate ourselves and turn our backs on Europe.

Us leavers knew what we were voting for and why - to make the UK a self-governing democracy again, not a colony of Germany ruled by unelected foreigners in Brussels.

Hello Sarah! waves Great party on Saturday, wasn't it? I hope your crystal healing goes well.

Yes mousse Britain is better than brexit

@hefzi - the famous money to the NHS seems to have been a definite lie according to many.

HTH

The whole thing was a shambles from start to finish first time round. So much bullshit, figures and statistics pulled out of their arses, a far too complicated situation for a yes or no answer.

The current tory government don't even like each other and they can't even agree what they want, so how does anyone expect the rest of us to know what's best?

Besides, I'm not sure anyone has really changed their mind. And I'm someone who doesn't think we should be in the EU but voted remain anyway because our dear leaders couldn't organise a piss up in an Etonian brewery. I believe I made the right choice.

It's beyond sad that in the middle of a horrendous war, their were people of vision who found time to lay the foundations for a post war health service, but now, with only weeks to go before we are expected to leave the EU we have politicians who haven't got beyond their personal squabbles and begun to think of the good of the country.

Since there are still leave voters here asserting that no lies were told by the leave side, I’m reposting this video.

6 minutes of lies told by the leave campaign in the run up to the referendum:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxWiRz6A9E

I object to the comparison between the leave side lies and the remain "lies".

Teh forecasts that were used were verified by a lot of other academics and think tanks, many of the things predicted have come true. Leavers just like to conflate the "worst case scenario" ones with an actual lie.

It wasn't, and of course the minute Cameron resigned and didn't declare article 50 on day 1 then that stabilized the market significantly. Can you imagine the chaos if he had?

Absolutely no equivalence between Leave lies and Remain campaigning. If my teenager came out with shit like that to defend hideous damaging lies, I would be disappointed- to say the least.
"Well you said that your bum wasn't fat and it is so you lied. Your lie is as bad as mine saying that I've started dealing drugs. It's the absolute same and you are a liar and I can deal drugs because you said it was ok to lie because you did it and your bum is fat". That kind of thing.

So if it’s a commonly held belief that the campaign wasn’t run on truths why has no one challenged it through the courts?

I find some of the thinking just amazing. Some people don’t want to feel they are ruled by Europe but would like the empire days back? Don’t want to feel like they are a colony of Germany. And yet- it would be ok to have an empire where countries are colonies of Britain. Bit of a double standard there.

But then, my view of countries controlling other countries is shaped by the knowledge of my countries history and it’s unwanted occupation - by many - by Britain.

Even with that, I would prefer that Britain stay in the EU but respect your choice to leave. The reason for the anger in many people I’ve talked to here is not that you’re leaving. It’s that no consideration was given to the consequences for Northern Ireland. There is peace there and after years of conflict they deserve to keep living in a peaceful country.

For the poster who referenced how the problem would be solved if Ireland left the EU - yes it would solve a lot. But we would be going with a country that we never chose to be part of in the first place so that would never be acceptable to the vast majority of Irish people.

A lot of Irish feel that Britain could have viewed Ireland as a neighbor they could make fit their needs and that Britain didn’t count on the EU supporting Ireland. I for one, am very grateful to the EU for supporting my country as we are too small to have enough influence - and gain enough respect- from bigger and more powerful nations. Britain doesn’t have this issue and this could be one reason why Britain voted leave and Ireland is never likely to.

Not sure that leavers were expecting to get the British expire back by voting leave. I think it was more to do with being free to arrange trade deals with other countries in the world rather than wanting to colonize them!

I don't think it was anything to do with free trade, unless its a mythological free trade deal in which the UK gets everything it wants at little cost.

Those who talk about trade deals rarely seem to understand the concept of comparative advantage, nor what we will trade. They also seem unable to explain why trading with the rest of the world ( 25% of our trade) is worth putting 59% of our exports with or through the EU at risk

Op, I know it's baffling to anyone outside the UK. Pretty baffling here too. Most Leavers rarely bother with us heathens on the Brexit threads. I see some horrible stuff on my local FB pages that remind me that Leave is still a loud and increasingly petulant voice.
Our last best hope would appear to be the UK Parliament not letting us plunge off into No Deal. I'm pinning a lot of hope on that but as I'm a prepper I'm in the "hope for best/prepare for the worst" frame of mind.
My late mum voted Remain. She was born in Cork and I thank her silently every day that I am an Irish citizen thanks to her and DD is in the process of getting on the Foreign Births Register thanks to her. At least one cousin of DD's is already on it.

It's a massive failure of good government to not run a second referendum now that there are more cards on the table.

There are massively important issues that affect generations to come - we didn't have anything laid out as clearly as we do now and to be told 'well, you had your go at it, that's it chum' is profoundly disrespectful of democracy. This is my future, my children's future, some twat on a website calling me a remoaner is nothing in comparison!

We would not be voting in a referendum on a simple in or out, with nothing but propaganda on both sides. We can see much more clearly how it is going to pan out. (It's still opaque...just less so than in 2016.) If your heart is still Leave, you'd get to vote leave. I honestly cannot see why there is a problem with a second referendum except that Leave probably fears they may lose.

Anyway, it's unlikely that we'll get to vote on our futures now, as opposed to voting on whether or not a group of cunts in suits made you feel good or bad about racism without actually mentioning it.

I think it was more about confidence and eagerness rather than arrogance about getting trade deals with other countries. I dont think anyone thought deals would be given to us on a plate as they need to be negotiated and mutually beneficial. Other countries have shown eagerness to begin discussions with us. I believed the EU would also be eager to come to a mutually beneficial agreement about a future relationship with the UK. However I don't know of anyone who has thought that we are going back to our empire days!

So if it’s a commonly held belief that the campaign wasn’t run on truths why has no one challenged it through the courts?

Because the referendum wasn’t legally binding, it was only advisory.

As we've said on these threads time and again: look at who's going to profit from brexit. These guys are nobody's friends (except for their cronies and their own bank accounts):

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/04/post-brexit-free-trade-deal-us-rightwing-thinktanks

Leavers who bang on about 'money's not everything'... for the backers of No Deal money IS everything!

There's no dignified ideal about sovereignty and freedom behind this! Ideals and principles are peddled by that toxic club as a means to an end! Make the little people feel better about themselves whilst stuffing them like Christmas turkeys!