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Brexit
Original poster

Can I ask why if the British people were lied to on the campaign for the referendum you don’t want another vote?

129 replies

Inkspellme · 02/12/2018 16:56

I’ve been curious about this question a good while and it often pops up in conversation in my house. I live in Ireland and in this country when we have a referendum we have the referendum commission to monitor it. It’s role is to post through several media types unbiased information about the choice presented to the voter. Every person in the country who is registered to vote receives this information. We also monitor the radio and tv coverage to ensure each side gets equal time to campaign for the result they want.

Which is why when I look at what happened in the British referendum I am amazed at how the information was presented to you.

It’s been acknowledged that you were lied to in the campaign. And yet now I hear your politicians talk of respecting the vote of the people when the people were given such little respect by them.

Why not a second referendum considering the first was influenced by false information. In Ireland it would have been challenged through the courts and likely to have been deemed necessary to redo. I know as a Republic we hold referenda very often so are much more experienced but I am still amazed at how the voters were treated.

OP posts:
Loletta · 03/12/2018 18:19

The Irish want the UK to rerun the referendum because they think we have been very stupid
as several of them told me to my face last month, while sadly smiling
and the Irish are VERY angry at the impact our vote will have on them

True. I was in Dublin a couple of months ago and was asked by several people "Brexit.. the fuck were you thinking?" What could I say? You just say "I know.."
And they were also worried and angry about the effect it would have on them. It's completely understandable: they didn't want Brexit, didn't vote for it but are going to suffer the worst consequences if our politicians fuck up on the border issue.

mostdays · 03/12/2018 18:58

At the weekend, a friend told me that she voted Leave because "if we didn't want to be ruled by Germany, why did we bother fighting in the war?"

This is the sort of shite that has made me stop caring about the extremely sensitive feelings of ignorant Leave voters. I don't see why I have to refrain from saying people like the pp's friend are stupid when they are merrily proving themselves to be exactly that.

Hefzi · 03/12/2018 19:02

Because we weren't lied to.

HTH.

BollocksToBrexit · 03/12/2018 19:04

I don't want a second referendum. I want the politicians to do the job they're bloody well paid for, admit that brexit is a load of shite and cancel the whole bloody thing. A second referendum is their cowardly way of passing the responsibility to someone else. Time for the grown ups to step in before somebody gets hurt.

Peregrina · 03/12/2018 19:05

We could so easily have sided with Germany before - the upper and upper middle classes were mostly in thrall to Hitler.
See Travellers in the Third Reich. I recommend this highly and am reading it again.

BackInTime · 03/12/2018 19:10

Ireland has history and experience to remind them of pretty tough times - famine, mass immigration, civil war, The Troubles in NI, Financial crash 2008. There is an acute awareness of our vulnerability as a small nation and whatever crisis happens affects everyone in some way or other.

This is not the case in the UK, some are so financially cushioned that a no deal would have little impact on their lives and others are so poor, state reliant and disenfranchised that they have nothing else to lose. There is also more of a ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude in the UK so people will quite happily vote leave regardless of the impact on their family and communities.

Moussemoose · 03/12/2018 19:18

Ireland is a direct democracy where referendums are planned and organised. They are part of the political process.

The U.K. SHOULD NOT HAVE REFERENDUM's.

However, we can't move forward without one for political not constitutional reasons.

bellinisurge · 03/12/2018 19:32

It's a brilliant book @Peregrina , gave me the shivers reading it. And I thought I knew a lot about that period and that specific topic.

Hermanhessescat · 03/12/2018 19:36

Me too reading travellers in the Reich ! So much research from diaries etc and shows how much ordinary and not so ordinary people were taken in !

ragged · 03/12/2018 19:42

I hate how divisive another campaign would be. I want Remain but The fury of Leavers who believed their prize was stolen from them could get very ugly. I am stuck with "undecided" about whether to have another vote.

All the yrs Britain led an empire, there were masses of very poor people living in UK. Why do people hark back to what it was like before welfare state? Why? Even into the 60s- 70s, no central heating, outdoor privies, ice on the windows in morning, everything bought on tick, no home phone. That sounds nice? To who?!

dapplegrey · 03/12/2018 20:13

the upper and upper middle classes were mostly in thrall to Hitler.

Peregrina, many of these these upper and middle classes which you despise so much fought against him very bravely once war broke out.

WhollyFather · 03/12/2018 20:30

These lies ... I wonder what the OP thinks they were.

All the lies came from Project Fear. Us leavers knew what we were voting for and why - to make the UK a self-governing democracy again, not a colony of Germany ruled by unelected foreigners in Brussels.

We won't be taking any advice from the Irish about referendums. Over the Lisbon Constitution, as it was before being rebranded, you were told to keep voting until the EU got the answer they wanted, and you did. We won't be.

There will be no second referendum because we have already decided to leave, and thanks to May's duplicity in producing a Withdrawal Agreement clearly written by the EU which is completely unacceptable to most of the country, the only option now is WTO.

Which will be fine. Ignore the propaganda.

Moussemoose · 03/12/2018 20:31

If we are going to reference 1939.

A year when Britain turned towards Europe. We did not turn our backs on our European neighbours. We did not say "there is trouble in Europe we will isolate ourselves".

And we could have done. We could have compromised with Hitler and many people wanted us to. It would have been easy to stay out of WW2.

No 1939 when Britain decided it was very much part of Europe and declared war to help Europe.

Moussemoose · 03/12/2018 20:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Peregrina · 03/12/2018 20:42

Peregrina, many of these these upper and middle classes which you despise so much fought against him very bravely once war broke out.

I don't dispute that, but it could have gone the other way. Some of course, like Mosley, some of the Mitford sisters never did renounce fascism.

Try reading the book I recommend - some undoubtedly fell in behind Hitler, many others didn't question sufficiently, and certain others really didn't know what to do.

Talkinpeece · 03/12/2018 20:48

oh joy WhollyFather is here to Mansplain again

bellinisurge · 03/12/2018 20:48

"Us leavers" Grin. Are you a tribe now?

prettybird · 03/12/2018 20:49

The "Ireland was made to vote again on the Lisbon Treat until it returned the right answer" is a fallacy that has already been addressed on this very thread (they didn't: the EU addressed the issues of both Ireland and Denmark and then they voted again) and just proves that Whollyfather doesn't RTFT he never does : he just plops on here to mansplain and then after dropping his bullshit, runs away again. Grin

It's really quite reassuring Wink - he only appears when they are rattled. Grin

DerelictWreck · 03/12/2018 20:51

My feeling is you don’t keep having referendum until you get the results you want

I've never understood this argument - we have elections every 5 years where we can change our mind, so why is a referendum binding?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 03/12/2018 20:54

I voted Leave. I didn’t listen to either side’s arguments before the vote and did my own research.

I think most people think most politicians lie and extend the truth. This happened on both sides.

A leave vote would win again. I know it’s hard for people to take but many of us loathe the EU

Moussemoose · 03/12/2018 20:55

You want to know when you were lied to?

About 20 mins ago by @WhollyFather. If we leave the U.K. will not be a "colony of Germany ruled by unelected foreigners in Brussels"

That is a lie.

The EU is a democracy. We are not a colony of Germany.

Peregrina · 03/12/2018 20:56

A year when Britain turned towards Europe.

Finally, after not getting involved in Czechoslovakia earlier - that faraway country that we knew little about. It shows that history is not black and white and it's easier to be wise with hindsight. But we probably shouldn't be to harsh on them - few people wanted war after the suffering that WW1 had caused and many of the politicians had fought in that war.

BollocksToBrexit · 03/12/2018 20:58

Us leavers knew what we were voting for and why - to make the UK a self-governing democracy again, not a colony of Germany ruled by unelected foreigners in Brussels.

My mum voted leave because David Cameron, George Osbourne and Angela Merkel are lizard people in human form and this was the only way to defeat them. Really, that was one of her justifications.

Moussemoose · 03/12/2018 20:58

I fully understand the reluctance to fight in 1939. My point was, and I think your as well Peregrina, was that we tried to isolate the U.K. and it didn't work. We were drawn into the problems faced by Europe and we will be again.

To think we can do otherwise is wrong and history shows us that again and again.

Talkinpeece · 03/12/2018 21:00

Calledyou
I know it’s hard for people to take but many of us loathe the EU
What in your day to day life will be better after Brexit ?
What will be your marker of a successful Brexit?