Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Break it or make it.

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2018 11:43

We have a deal on the table. In reality it does not answer the question the result of the referendum posed: what type of deal do we want? The progress we have actually made in 2 years is to say, 'we want to leave' but nothing more. Or as its been termed: 'Blind Brexit' in which we exit but without knowing what comes next.

Even this is controversial. There are apparently some 88 Conservative back bench MPs (or half the Conservative back bench MPs) who are intending to vote against approving the deal. Some are remainers and some are hard leavers. Each side believing there is still everything to play for; whether that be no deal or no brexit. We are still as divided as ever.

The stumbling block, as ever, is largely the NI backstop. With many still arguing that it should be time limited. This fails to understand that the backstop is the GFA to all intents and purposes. And this is why Ireland and the EU will never agree to have a time limited backstop.

And once again we have this fundamental misunderstanding that the withdrawal agreement is anything more than merely the mechanism to leave, not the final deal, which is hampering all discussion of the subject.

There is talk that May will try to push the deal through and if she fails she will try for a second time. This might work, if this wasn't being anticipated. The trouble is the element of surprise is gone. This has now been denied by a No10 spokesperson. And has the possibility of a second referendum. Though the door on that, seems to be more open than less, with May's official declaration of a Blind Brexit. The whole effectiveness of a TARP style situation and a second vote on the deal in the HoC is the guilotine effect, where MPs look over the cliff and go 'shiiiiiitttt'. If the hope is alive for another way out for either the ERG or Remainers, then the plan is dead anyway. The a50 ECJ case is also still on; the latest government appeal to kill it was blocked.

Not only this, but there is the first tangable rumblings of discontent within the EU towards the deal. Spain has talked about voting the deal down. Whether this is anymore than talk, remains to be seen. Spain can not veto the deal at this stage anyway - but it might be able to cause trouble further down the line and thats the danger.

Meanwhile Labour are still promising unicorns and a total renegotition of the deal. This still focuses on the backstop.

Sunday's EU summit does still seem to be on though, despite Merkel suggesting that she wouldn't turn up.

And remember, as it stands, on 29th March we will leave the EU without a deal. The power to stop this lies with the Government and EU as far as we know at present, pending the outcome of the ECJ case.

May still has everything to do to make a deal happen and there are so many forces and people working to break it. We have still not made any real progress to Brexit, apart from get closer to it, through the mere ticking of the clock.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
1tisILeClerc · 23/11/2018 22:03

Fieldgold
I thought you asked that yesterday?
No deal gives the possibility of no flights, massive holdups of food and manufacturing parts for cars etc, significant loss of jobs and so on.

prettybird · 23/11/2018 22:06

What's the point of TM going "above the MPs" to talk direct to the people on R5Live to "sell the WA"? Confused

Why bother selling something if you're never going to give the people the choice of "buying", ie a PV or a GE? Confused

1tisILeClerc · 23/11/2018 22:07

Most 'Leavers' have not thought through the repercussions of a 'no deal' Brexit and happily go along with the 'it will be fine' and 'WTO rules are OK'. Basically many regulations and certifications would stop overnight (literally) causing massive confusion and stoppages.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 22:08

The No Deal supporters deny any serious effects and believe in unicorns
Well, to be exact: some of the leaders are lying for fun or profit

DGRossetti · 23/11/2018 22:11

Is it just me, or is there a subtext for this choice of picture for the BBCs front page ?

Westminstenders: Break it or make it.
jasjas1973 · 23/11/2018 22:18

Apparently the idea is for members of the public to put pressure on their local MPs via FB etc to vote for the deal, long shot if ever there was....

1tisILeClerc · 23/11/2018 22:18

I can't get over 'Leavers' notion that they want everything to be different (to prove the UK has left the EU) but stay the same.
Even if they sent the childcatcher round and removed most of the EU 'immigrants' it would hardly be noticeable on a day to day level (apart from fewer doctors and care workers etc).

jasjas1973 · 23/11/2018 22:19

Not the flattering of pictures is it?

prettybird · 23/11/2018 22:21

Given that the MPs are happy to ignore any and all pressure, comments or contributions from Remain voters, why should anything change now? Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 22:22

_ Theresa May has delivered an Idiot's Brexit, but the idiots will not stand for it_

Lovely reminder of a Ready, Steady, Cook episode with a Pot Noodle, a Mars Bar and a can of lager.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-brexit-iain-duncan-smith-house-of-commons-political-declaration-idiots-brexit-a8647606.html

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2018 22:36

1 Million Green Bottles Sitting A Warehouse
1 Million Green Bottles Sitting A Warehouse
And if No Deal Brexit, should accidently happen
They'll be 1 Million Green Bottles Sitting A Warehouse

Westminstenders: Break it or make it.
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 22:55

Poll WA still very unpopular, but the margin Support / Oppose has dropped by 14% over the last 5 days

A one-off effect of bad publicity for the ERG, or the start of a WA trend ?

Britain Elects@britainelects

On the draft Brexit deal:

Support: 23% (+8)
Oppose: 45% (-6)

via @YouGov
, 19 - 20 Nov
Chgs. w/ 15 Nov

Jaffacakebeast · 23/11/2018 23:01

I don’t get why people are still banging on about a 2nd referendum, like it’ll be our saviour. What if vote leave still won? Would that just mean no deal?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 23:02

The Irish Borderr@BorderIrish*

Isn’t an English Goodbye when you tell everyone you’re definitely leaving
and then stand around for two and a half years arguing with yourself about how to do it?
😂😂

Hazardswan · 23/11/2018 23:08

Another ref has the possibility of being a saviour. Diane Abbott was talking today stating she thought leave would win again but this opinion wasn't based on facts.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 23:10

Jaffa If Leave won a PV, then it would be difficult for a govt to do anything other than adapt the version of Leave chosen / available in the PV

Even if that were No Deal

That is why some of us, e.g. red and I, are NOT fans of a PV
at least not unless public opinion changes to about 65% Remain
in which case the govt could just ask to Revoke, without needing the political fig-leaf of a PV

During the transition period after Brexit, there might be a PV, if the govt is so disfunctional that it cannot decide what to do

A PV at any time could still leave us in the same, or worse, position, unless public opinion has switched to Remain

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 23/11/2018 23:12

Justice minister has said the main benefit is control of immigration 4 times now on Bewsnight uljydt now. Yep the only thing. Was so infuriated I turned it off.

Am I the only one who likes being in a multi cultural society where people can live all over Europe ? Why is immigration such a bad thing? I thought immigration helped this country. ?

And it would happen with any trade deal with anywhere.

fieldgold · 23/11/2018 23:13

All I can say is that it is a total and utter fkn mess now.

Opposite views welcome with explanations!

Jaffacakebeast · 23/11/2018 23:14

Even if remain won the 2nd PV though, Nigel Farage would be straight on it asking for a 3rd. I see that logic, if there’s a 2nd, it just opens things up to a 3rd, best out of 5? Who knows.

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 23/11/2018 23:16

I am not sure I trust a ref either , last time people voted leave for many reasons. How many people are just fed up with it all and the govt and universal credit and a host of other stuff and just cote accordingl?

OlennasWimple · 23/11/2018 23:16

Number plate recognition is helpful for managing risk, for example if a van is linked to a known / suspected smuggler, it can be pulled over for inspection at a secondary check point after the automated system has registered that it is attempting to cross the border

Everyone knows that the current border arrangements aren't 100% watertight, and most reasonable people accept it, provided that the highest harm goods (Class A drugs being smuggled to fund terrorist activity, for example) and people (known terrorists) are caught and prevented from entering whenever possible

fieldgold · 23/11/2018 23:16

Great, better to stay in EU than half in half out as is proposed.

But No Deal is a shuddering disaster. If anyone can think of a better proposal, well we are all ears.

UK is in a bit of pincer movement now. As many predicted two years ago.

Hazardswan · 23/11/2018 23:19

Another ref would kinda be a 3rd... best out of three seems reasonable.

I know Nigel farage did a deal with the devil to survive that plane crash but he has to retire at some point.

Icantreachthepretzels · 23/11/2018 23:21

For me, it's more about maintaining the pressure and recording my discontent and my support for continued remain - than it actually is about wanting a vote that could go horribly wrong. A people's vote is just the mechanism for doing that - because simply asking outright for a revocation would be met with accusations of being antidemocratic.
Reminding TM that the 48% exists and still have a right to a voice in this country is important - if we yell loud enough it may sway the way she negotiates the deal if the WA gets through - and if it doesn't get through, our support gives her an out for an emergency revocation.
But if we stay quiet it will be hard brexit all the way. 80% of the people voted for brexit supporting parties at the last general election don'tchyaknow? Therefore they must be happy with whatever shit sandwich they are handed.
Well - think again TM, we're not shutting up, we're not going away and -in the event of disaster - we will be holding you accountable. But you can't just says that - so we say 'people's vote on the final deal'.

Motheroffourdragons · 23/11/2018 23:22

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Swipe left for the next trending thread