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Brexit

Westminstenders: Break it or make it.

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2018 11:43

We have a deal on the table. In reality it does not answer the question the result of the referendum posed: what type of deal do we want? The progress we have actually made in 2 years is to say, 'we want to leave' but nothing more. Or as its been termed: 'Blind Brexit' in which we exit but without knowing what comes next.

Even this is controversial. There are apparently some 88 Conservative back bench MPs (or half the Conservative back bench MPs) who are intending to vote against approving the deal. Some are remainers and some are hard leavers. Each side believing there is still everything to play for; whether that be no deal or no brexit. We are still as divided as ever.

The stumbling block, as ever, is largely the NI backstop. With many still arguing that it should be time limited. This fails to understand that the backstop is the GFA to all intents and purposes. And this is why Ireland and the EU will never agree to have a time limited backstop.

And once again we have this fundamental misunderstanding that the withdrawal agreement is anything more than merely the mechanism to leave, not the final deal, which is hampering all discussion of the subject.

There is talk that May will try to push the deal through and if she fails she will try for a second time. This might work, if this wasn't being anticipated. The trouble is the element of surprise is gone. This has now been denied by a No10 spokesperson. And has the possibility of a second referendum. Though the door on that, seems to be more open than less, with May's official declaration of a Blind Brexit. The whole effectiveness of a TARP style situation and a second vote on the deal in the HoC is the guilotine effect, where MPs look over the cliff and go 'shiiiiiitttt'. If the hope is alive for another way out for either the ERG or Remainers, then the plan is dead anyway. The a50 ECJ case is also still on; the latest government appeal to kill it was blocked.

Not only this, but there is the first tangable rumblings of discontent within the EU towards the deal. Spain has talked about voting the deal down. Whether this is anymore than talk, remains to be seen. Spain can not veto the deal at this stage anyway - but it might be able to cause trouble further down the line and thats the danger.

Meanwhile Labour are still promising unicorns and a total renegotition of the deal. This still focuses on the backstop.

Sunday's EU summit does still seem to be on though, despite Merkel suggesting that she wouldn't turn up.

And remember, as it stands, on 29th March we will leave the EU without a deal. The power to stop this lies with the Government and EU as far as we know at present, pending the outcome of the ECJ case.

May still has everything to do to make a deal happen and there are so many forces and people working to break it. We have still not made any real progress to Brexit, apart from get closer to it, through the mere ticking of the clock.

OP posts:
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bellinisurge · 27/11/2018 16:10

@woodpigeons - interesting stuff although us preppers prefer to discuss that on the Prepper topic.

There are expensive options - Berkey filter - or personal options like the Life Straw for about £25. I am more for the collect rainwater, filter it through a T-shirt to get rid of anything bulky then boil it.
Or disinfect with drops of thin bleach.
But again, doubt that this will be a No Deal consequence. It's more a prepper consideration.

DGRossetti · 27/11/2018 16:20

The Food and Drink Federation warned that all available frozen and chilled space had been taken – but no-one knew who had taken it and whether there was anything in it.

I guess there's ample opportunities for scumbags to try and game the system and exploit the situation. Probably find that one of Moggys companies bought up all the storage last year for a song, and is now going to sell it back at 100x the price.

I'm no fan of the death penalty, but it's worth remembering it's the punishment of choice for looters.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 16:55

"all available frozen and chilled space had been taken – but no-one knew who had taken it and whether there was anything in it."^

Someone hoarding, to make zillions ?

This govt may regard such activities as just clever business, whereas there were harsh penalties for profiteers during the WW2 that the ERG keep harking back to

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 16:58

Only one of hundreds of possibilities for spivs to make their fortune form No Deal

  • no wonder the Tory right and their zillionire donors are so desperate to push No Deal

Did I recognise our pre-ref chum SpringingIntoAction - under a new name - on that other Brexit thread ? 🤔

merrymouse · 27/11/2018 17:03

From the web chat I have learned:

  • Nobody has proposed a 'Canada' deal that can in any way meet the requirement not to create a border in Ireland or in the Irish Sea
  • The only reason that the EU would consider a different deal would be if a viable deal were suggested by a different PM. (And as we all know anybody with a viable alternative deal is very shy about coming forward).
DGRossetti · 27/11/2018 17:04

spivs

Now there's a pre-EEC nostalgia word ... conjures up Pvt. Walker from Dads Army ....

1tisILeClerc · 27/11/2018 17:07

While of course thanking those three who came on to host the webchat, we should also thank particularly BCF and RTB who among some others have furnished us with most of the 'information' on the Westminsterenders thread particularly.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 17:25

DG "Spivs" was revived in the 1980s as a very popular description for MrsT's new breed of Tories,
... who are now the default breed.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 17:32

How will your MP vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal?

The 1st attempt is expected to fail heavily, with 94 Tories - mostly Ultras - voting with the Opposition; only 1 Lab, 1 LDem and 2 Indies voting with the govt

.... I hope noone is still holding large amounts of Sterling savings ....

Handy list to check if your own MP is For / Against:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/26/how-will-your-mp-vote-on-theresa-mays-brexit-deal

Westminstenders: Break it or make it.
lonelyplanetmum · 27/11/2018 17:40

DGR - I think everyone has been distracted by the webchat.

However I just wanted to say sorry that your DW was told to "fuck off home" for the first time and that her implant might not be the proper one.

I also wish that some of the belligerent Leave voters (and certain politicians) would fuck off home to wherever their Anglo Saxon, Norman, Viking, Bordic, Roman, Greek, Huguenot , Empire etc etc roots dictate.

lonelyplanetmum · 27/11/2018 17:41

Nordic not Bordic( but that aspect of the debate is very boring).

hanahsaunt · 27/11/2018 17:47

It's very depressing to note that my MP is listed in the Guardian's summary of how he will vote as 'in accordance with party line'. It's no surprise. He has no opinions and always votes with the government. He's not even a conviced yes or no. Just whatever...

Hazardswan · 27/11/2018 17:51

DG sorry to your wife, I'm another with a foreign sounding name and I have no idea how I would respond to that! I cant fuck off anywhere else im to british?! I hope the implant turns out to be okay, sometimes things just suck and she deserves not to have this worry Flowers

TatianaLarina · 27/11/2018 17:52

Mine’s voting against. I’m glad they’ve belatedly woken up the fact she’s in a Remain constituency.

Buteo · 27/11/2018 17:56

My MP is voting for the WA. And it's an elderly Tory Leave voting area.

She is at least pragmatic.

woodpigeons · 27/11/2018 17:59

@bellinisurge I’m not really into prepping, or not yet anyway, just keeping things in mind.
I posted about water purification because it was mentioned in a previous post about 2 pages back.

Mrsr8 · 27/11/2018 18:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 18:21

DG Just read about your wife's experience.
So sorry & outraged once again
Brexit has lifted up the stone to let out some ugly creep-crawlies.
💐 to MrsDG

Mrsr8 · 27/11/2018 18:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Talkstotrees · 27/11/2018 18:27

Flowers for your DW DGR - what utter fuckers.

My MP is on government payroll (minor), no way he will let his career be damaged by a resignation. He is a total remainer at heart, so hopefully is quietly lobbying and has his fingers crossed that the WA will be voted down.

prettybird · 27/11/2018 18:29

I have an SNP MP so don't have to look up what he's voting Grin

I have a very Germanic name (my ancestors actually left Germany in the 16th century Shock) but have never come across any negativity (except my first few years at primary over 50 years ago! - but that was just initial teasing because I had a strange name rather than being foreign).

Dh actually looks more foreign than me even though he is supposedly 100% Scottish (shipwrecked Spaniard in there somewhere Wink)

Mrsr8 · 27/11/2018 18:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HesterThrale · 27/11/2018 18:33

Richard Corbett explodes all of the 40 claims that TM made in her deal letter. And shows some impressive alliteration.

www.richardcorbett.org.uk/falsehoods-failures-fibs-fabrications/

Hazardswan · 27/11/2018 18:56

This been posted?

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-topps-tiles-stockpiling-eu-departure-2018-results-a8654036.html

Stockpiling tiles? Surely that space should go to something else?

jasjas1973 · 27/11/2018 19:05

@Hester - Good link, thank you, it has cleared up if i had any doubt on how shite this deal is Lol!