AIBU to think that if the government stopped or paused Brexit, it is highly unlikely there would be massive 'civil' unrest ?

[frumpety]

I have heard people say that if Brexit was stopped or even paused there would be riots and mass civil unrest as a result. I honestly don't think there would be, I know a lot of people would be annoyed or angry.

Would any leave voter on here seriously consider rioting ?

In the absence of loads of new well paid jobs to keep the country afloat after a no deal, or even a deal that is bad for business, I suppose there could be a situation where people can't afford care homes for their elderly parents, so looking after them at home will become necessary.
Obviously a massive wrench but who knows.

I hate austerity, I earn very little, but I voted remain. There are lots of people like me, who realised Brexit was not going to help in any way and didn't want to get even poorer.

1tisILeClerc - Yes, outside of the EU nobody has a job and the elderly are left to starve in ditches.

{1tisILeClerc - Yes, outside of the EU nobody has a job and the elderly are left to starve in ditches}
Apart from being totally incorrect, what is the point of you saying that, other than attempt at 'goadiness'?

Any overturning of our democratic decision to Leave the EU will result in the death of democracy in the UK. When people have no democratic recourse the only option is direct action. We are policed by consent. Without that consent we will have anarchy.
My own actions so far have been to write to my MP (twice now) expressing my outrage at the way the democratic will of the people is being betrayed. I have never before written to my MP.
I have never gone on a march in my life before. If Brexit is stopped I will.
If the Government overturn the vote then I would henceforth consider the Government my enemy. All cooperation will be withdrawn and the social contract broken.

My vote (for what it is worth) will go to UKIP or another party that supports democracy, certainly not LibLabCon.

Your on this thread sprouting bollocks about democracy now are you OutsideInTheGarden?

The referendum was advisory
Parliament is sovereign and can not be bound by another decision.
We have democratic recourse via general election.
Referenda are not a key feature (or any bloody feature tbh) of a representative democracy.

1tisILeClerc - EU trade accounts for only 11% or so of our GDP. Even in the event of a clean break with the EU all of that trade will not disappear. It may be disrupted a bit, the costs of trade may shave a percentage point or two off it but it won't stop. Companies trade, not Governments.
We had a large fall in GDP post-2008 and I can't say I, or anybody I know, noticed.
Nobody would notice a point or two off potential future growth either. Growth will still be there but some economists will claim that if we were in the EU it would have been higher. Well unless being in the EU was the absolute optimal situation for the UK then I've got news for you - UK growth over the last 45 years would have been higher if we had pursued an optimal economic strategy. Did anyone notice or rue the fact that we might have been 30% better off by doing things differently? Nope. People managed just fine.

Oh, maybe you are claiming that the economic path the UK took within the EU was the absolutely best strategy it could have pursued? If so, I wonder how you can square the fact the EU is set up to favour the comparative advantage Germany has in manufacturing and the lack of a single market in services works against the UK's comparative advantage in services. I'm all ears.

Moussemoose:
"The referendum was advisory
We have democratic recourse via general election.
Referenda are not a key feature (or any bloody feature tbh) of a representative democracy."

Would that be the referendum that the UK Government made the following statements about:
"On Thursday, 23 June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU)."
"This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide."

Is it that referendum we are talking about? Was there another one?

"Parliament is sovereign and can not be bound by another decision."
Really? The current UK Government is seeking to bind future Governments into rules set by the EU. (Leaving aside the sovereignty surrendered since 1973).

"Referenda are not a key feature (or any bloody feature tbh) of a representative democracy."
You seem to revel in the fact that other people make decisions for you. Have you heard of the concept of self-reliance?

{I'm all ears.} Not a lot between them though.

{We had a large fall in GDP post-2008 and I can't say I, or anybody I know, noticed.} I wonder where you were then as the UK economy hasn't quite recovered from that event.

{UK growth over the last 45 years would have been higher if we had pursued an optimal economic strategy.} As there have been several changes of government over this period, and given that at the beginning the UK was the 'sick man of Europe' with strikes, failing natural resources and so on, where was the fantastic governmental leadership who would invest heavily and steer the wonder ship that was the UK?

Of course the UK has to stand it's ground and is rightfully a world leader in some activities. No country can expect to be the 'best' at everything. In case you hadn't noticed, it isn't always about being 'top dog'. There are many countries where the majority of the population are content just to 'be'.

Th government can say what it likes. You don't believe everything that politicians say do you?

Legally and constitutionally the referendum was advisory. It has no standing in law. I say you are a smelly poo head - does that make it true?

The U.K. parliament is sovereign. However, as we enter an increasingly globalised world some aspects of sovereignty are shared. If we leave the EU and trade under WTO rules - we will be trading under those rules with no say in how they are made.

In the EU some laws are made (democratically) and we have to abide by them. The key difference is we get a say in how they are made.

Sovereignty is pooled via NATO and the ECHR.

Sovereignty is going to be 100% which ever decision we make. However, in terms of the U.K. no body can bind parliament not even parliament.

You say in reference to my comment on representative democracy You seem to revel in the fact that other people make decisions for you. Have you heard of the concept of self-reliance?

I am not commenting on whether this is right or wrong I am merely explaining to you how the system you value works. I have some significant issues with U.K. democracy but they are based on an understanding of it.

You want to retain the U.K. system of democracy but consistently demonstrate a profound lack of understanding of how it works.

No country has 'total' Sovereignty if it is to interact with any other country. Maybe your vision is 'total' sovereignty for the UK. At that point you would have to ditch NI as it is bordered by Ireland, a spot of sharing going on.
Trade looses a little more so stopping all trade or movement of people, just a total ban. Shame you would starve to death.

Any overturning of our democratic decision to Leave the EU will result in the death of democracy in the UK. When people have no democratic recourse the only option is direct action.

Do you think the people of NI feel the same about the threat of the referendum they had re the GFA being ripped up by the EU referendum?

All cooperation will be withdrawn and the social contract broken.

How you going to do that then?

We had a large fall in GDP post-2008 and I can't say I, or anybody I know, noticed.
Well, you must be one of those 'elites' that people keep banging on about these days. Did you not notice people getting poorer, did you not notice food banks springing up all over the place, or the worsening of services?

Would that be the referendum that the UK Government made the following statements about:
"On Thursday, 23 June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU)."
"This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide."

It's what the legislation actually says which matters. The statement above is something like a Manifesto. Manifestos don't have to be implemented, the law has established that. They are more like a wish list. Cameron was also going to stay on - that pledge didn't last a day, but no one has tried suing him for breach of promise.

European Union Democracy. The actuality.
Guy Verhofstadt, Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe; ‘… and that is the real problem colleagues why there is such a problem in this crisis because member states are reluctant to transfer new sovereignty and powers to the European Union and we all know that the only way out of this crisis is a new transfer of powers to the European Union and to the European institutions.’

As I said in an increasingly globalised world sovereignty will become diluted. It is already diluted by membership of both NATO and the ECHR.

If we trade under WTO rules we will have to obey them but with no democratic input to decision making.

Your choice is not total sovereignty or diluted sovereignty.

The dilution will happen, has already happened the question is to who and how much influence do we have.

@OutsideInTheGarden
How are you going to withdraw your consent to be governed if the 2016 referendum is overturned by another democratic vote? What have you got planned?

IIRC Mrs May (as UK PM) was due to take a rotated post at the EU but stepped away from it as she was busy with Brexit.
Sovereignty of the UK won't stop EU and other world manufacturers upping sticks and walking out. OK not necessarily catastrophic but a big dent in the economy.
Tories are not interested in 'ordinary people' and have, through BoJo declared that business can 'get stuffed'. Makes you wonder what their plan might be.

Outside
European Union Democracy. The actuality.
Guy Verhofstadt, Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe;
Link please, for context, date and relevance.

Seeing Guy Verhofstadt having a lash at Farage a month or so back, I want Guy on my side!

1tisILeClerc - why would manufacturers up sticks and walk out? Many exporters trade with non-EU nations (actually the majority of UK exports - 56%, and rising, are to non-EU countries). How is leaving the EU going to harm their trade? In addition, even for those companies that export to the EU, given that no tariffs are likely to be put in place, how much will really be affected? In reality it will be very little. At worst a slightly longer form may need to be filled out. That would be as difficult as it is for current non-EU trade, I.e. Not very.
Enough of the unsubstantiated catastrophizing already. Project Fear 1.0 didn't work and neither will the latest incarnation.

Watch Guy in action.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=74mAwIBou1A

This is your hero Remainers.

Seriously Remainers, you need to take an interest in just what it is you've been voting/cheering for.

Outside.
I don't know, try asking BMW, Airbus, Nissan, JLR, many pharmaceuticals, in fact most that use JIT manufacturing.
Oh and a reasonable number of Financial services.
Actually you can't ask them at the moment because the government have given then NDAs to stop them talking. Always the sign of transparent open government.

And in the latest "I know you are but what am I," salvo, we are told that Remain voters are into a cult of personality for someone who has NOT spent the past several years getting loads of coverage on Question Time.

Deny
Attack
Reverse
Victim &
Offender

Sound familiar?