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Brexit

Brexiteers, if there was a 'People's Vote' how would you vote?

436 replies

millsbynight · 09/11/2018 18:17

For me? I'd flatly vote No Deal.

Would others vote to stay in the EU or agree to Teresa May's deal?

Everyone I know who voted Leave would still vote Leave (the same goes for those who voted Remain) so I'd be really curious to see what the outcome of a 2nd referendum would generate.

OP posts:
OutsideInTheGarden · 17/11/2018 23:11

"Since it is being established that Russian money was used for the Leave campaign, which is I believe illegal, it changes the legitimacy of saying that Leave 'won' the referendum.
'Will of the people' is partly 'will of the Russian people'."

Nothing of the sort has been proved.

The Remain campaign / People's vote nonsense are funded by who? George Soros is one source. Soros, isn't he kind of well, foreign? Hmm...

Moussemoose · 17/11/2018 23:18

Unfortunately, the deal we have at the moment the ECJ will still have supremacy but with out any British judges.

The EU won't budge on this.

So the thing you object to and voted against will remain. Only now we have no voice.

Good job there. You have proven what a disaster this is for both sides. No one gets what they wanted and the economy tanks.

OutsideInTheGarden · 18/11/2018 12:07

"The EU won't budge on this".

Why is this nonsense always stated as Gospel?

Moussemoose · 18/11/2018 12:18

Because the EU have stated this many times. The EU negotiating position has been clear all along.

The deal TM got is, with a few tweaks, the deal the EU proposed.

TM and DD and BJ shouted about red lines and free trade deals, the EU has stood firm.

All the evidence as presented at the moment indicate the EU will stick to their position. This is evidence based reasoning.

Rather than taking a comment - "EU army in the future" and extrapolating to Polish troops suppressing the plucky British public, you look at the evidence we have and form a logical opinion.

The EU say they won't move. The EU hasn't moved. Therefore it is unlikely they will move.

KennDodd · 18/11/2018 12:24

I wonder if a second referendum is actually getting very close? Increased activity on MN of new posters very familiar with what previous Russian presidents have said seems odd? I think Putin must be worried.

OutsideInTheGarden · 18/11/2018 12:31

Moussemoose - I don't think you understand the concept of negotiations. You're in good company there however, as clearly Treason May doesn't either.

OutsideInTheGarden · 18/11/2018 12:37

KennDodd - You think I'm Russian? Haha.
Here are a couple more quotes which are quite pertinent to the EU.

To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good... Ideology - that is what gives devildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes, so that he won't hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors.
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

To destroy a people, you must first sever their roots.
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Moussemoose · 18/11/2018 12:38

Negotiation is about power. When one side has all the power they do not need to compromise as much as the powerless side.

You don't give away deeply held principles that will weaken an organisation you respect because someone else stamps their foot and demands that you do.

Brexit supporters fundamentally did not understand negotiations, they believed Britain had the power to make the EU do what they wanted. BJ, JRM and NF believed if we said jump the EU would ask how high.

This demonstrates a deep misunderstanding of the U.K. power outside the EU and how negotiations work. I didn't vote for them.

PerfectlyGoodAtBeingBad · 18/11/2018 12:39

I stupidly voted leave (I say stupidly because I didn't put much effort into getting all the facts) and I didn't think it would be this much of a shit show. I thought the government would have some sort of plan if the people voted leave which they didn't.
If I got the chance again, I'd vote remain because I absolutely detest this government. I suppose I'd also vote shit deal over no deal because it feels a lot like cutting off our only life line and this government will drown us.

1tisILeClerc · 18/11/2018 12:40

Some interesting spelling coming from a 'University educated' person. Which University was it?

Quietrebel · 18/11/2018 12:55

To destroy a people, you must first sever their roots.

A beautiful quote by Solzhenitsyn in reference to the ruthlessness of the Soviet regime which did everything it could to stamp out ethnic and national identities within the USSR. I suspect you don't know the former Soviet bloc very well.
Regional identities and languages have been protected within the EU. The EU does not obliterate national identities. Soviet rule however did. Please ask Lithuanians -or other Baltic states- whether they'd prefer Soviet rule or the EU! The USSR sent hundreds of thousands of Lithuanians - for instance- to gulags in the Arctic circle. Do not dare compare the EU to a cruel regime which placed its own paranoid interpretation of a flawed ideology above human life.

Moussemoose · 18/11/2018 13:02

And again context is everything thank you (again) Quietrebel.

Quietrebel · 18/11/2018 13:03

You're very welcome mousse

twofingerstoEverything · 18/11/2018 15:21

It is indeed very noticeable how many posters with no previous MN history are crawling all over the Brexit threads. Worried, are they?

PerfectlyGoodAtBeingBad · 18/11/2018 15:32

I am worried and a long time lurked (if the previous post was aimed at me) Hmm

PerfectlyGoodAtBeingBad · 18/11/2018 15:32

**lurker

twofingerstoEverything · 18/11/2018 15:34

Not at you, PerfectlyGood Smile

MeganBacon · 18/11/2018 16:16

Do long term posters not see the irony of questioning the authenticity of new posters and at the same time, levelling this sort of comment at them?

Some interesting spelling coming from a 'University educated' person. Which University was it?

Every time a Leaver puts their views across they are treated to this sort of sneering, so obviously they don't hang around to be a long term poster. And then people say things like "where have all the Leavers gone".

Given the increasing possibility of a second referendum and the expected split of results (see the interesting poll on yougov), we remainers have a lot of convincing to do and this board is such a missed opportunity.

1tisILeClerc · 18/11/2018 16:44

If a 'leaver' can put up even half reasoned 'discussion points' there is no issue. Spouting almost complete crap is not in that category'
Outside's 'qualification' for being right seems to need 'I've been to University' to justify it. Most of the top politicians that are buggering up the UK have been to very expensive universities, but it doesn't stop them from destroying the UK.

PerfectlyGoodAtBeingBad · 18/11/2018 23:58

When I voted Leave I did so because I didn't like the thought of unelected bureaucrats making decisions for the UK. I also didn't like the way the media portrayed the EU as bullying the UK and thought Brexit would solve this. This along with being surrounded by leave supporters seemed like the right idea. Then it became clear I had no idea what I actually voted for. Neither did half my family...

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 00:54

1tisILeClerc - "Some interesting spelling coming from a 'University educated' person. Which University was it?"

Is that directed at me? If so it's a bit pathetic. You are aware that people post on phones/tablets as well as PCs and hence errors creep in. Half the time auto-correct puts in all sorts of unintended words.

Feel free to correct my spelling (which is generally far better than the average these days if my work colleagues are anything to go by).

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 01:04

The time has come to face the truth about the EU. There are 193 countries in the UN and 90% of economic growth is not happening in the EU28. Rejoining the Rest Of The Growing World is not a cliff-edge; it’s a massive opportunity we need to embrace, something the EU also recognises in its recent attempts to conclude trade deals with third countries, like CETA, TTIP, South Korea, Mexico, South America, Australia, Japan and New Zealand. Unfortunately, the EU is a reluctant free trader, preferring protectionism, and is very slow to make deals, which tend to be of the superficial, lowest common denominator-type that can be agreeable to 28 Members with 28 different vested interests and lobby groups.
British voters never wanted to be in this Club. They weren’t asked in 1972, because polls showed only 24% wanted to join. They were cheated into remaining in 1975 by Labour’s New Deal of a Common Market ‘without EMU’, which Labour pursued behind voters backs in 1978. They weren’t asked subsequently about surrendering our Veto in the Single Market, the transformation into a federalist EU with Maastricht, Monetary Union, Enlargement, or the Constitutional/Lisbon Treaty. Indeed, decades of denying voters a say on this avalanche of change revealed a political class increasingly detached from basic democratic norms that have profoundly damaged trust between ordinary people and their rulers. The Referendum vote wasn’t decided by the slogans on a Red Bus or Project Fear. It was decided by decades of mounting discontent with the arrogance of politicians who ignored, abused and insulted millions of concerned voters, people who overwhelmingly voted UKIP in the 2014 European Elections that finally panicked the Conservatives into offering a Referendum at the 2015 General Election.
During this period, Britain squandered hundreds of billions on membership fees, more than our North Sea Oil dividend, and a great deal more in regulatory, procurement and other costs. In return for that reckless generosity, membership gave us rigged exchange rates and interest rates that resulted in repeated boom and bust downturns, and price-fixing cartels in food, fisheries, manufacturing, energy, VAT and other basics that raised costs of living, and reduced competitiveness. EU membership also involved treating our Commonwealth friends to European barriers for no better reason than they weren’t European and never could be. Initiatives like the Internal Market, Customs Union, Enlargement, and EMU were sold to voters as economic matters, when in reality they were intended to forge a United States of Europe that had costly uneconomic consequences. Between 1990 and 2017, our National Debt increased from 150 BN, the lowest debt to GDP ratio since the 19th Century, to 1,700 BN, accounting for more than 50 BN each year just in Debt Interest payments, one billion every week we cannot spend on other public services or lower taxes, and debts our children’s children will still be paying in the 22nd Century.
The EU is not a peace project borne out of the horrors of WW2. That’s a myth made in Brussels. The pan-European Movement started in Austria after the defeat of the Central Powers in World War 1 to recreate the lost empires of Germany and the Habsburgs to confront their mutual enemy, Russia, and also envisaged a similar Japanese empire in the Far East to compromise Russia from the Pacific, two ideas that were subsequently reflected in the war aims of the belligerents in World War 2. It is NATO, the UN, non-EU America, non-EU Russia, and a nuclear World that has kept the peace in Europe since 1945, and it is the growth of technology and trade around the World, particularly in Asia, that is bringing countries closer together. The EU is an ethnocentric imperial idea that doesn’t belong in a World where discriminating against people for accidents of birth is rightly condemned. It is plain wrong to impose tariffs on Africans, Asians and Americans purely because they aren’t European, and never can be.
Brexit is a moral, democratic and economic necessity. Britain needs to pursue a future of genuine free trade and non-discriminatory co-operation open to the whole World, adaptable to change, and responsive to voters concerns, something liberals used to believe in more than a hundred years ago when they opposed our discriminatory Imperial Preference. Fortunately, our European cousins have already set precedents for free access to their Single Market, as well as new initiatives for streamlined electronic customs and borders (REX and ETIAS), and Britain will be able to start any new relationship from a position of regulatory equivalence and strategic partnership. There is no reason why it cannot succeed, as long as we can avoid the politics of regime-change still being pursued by Remainers and their influential vested interests in business, the media and big finance.

TheElementsSong · 19/11/2018 06:10

If Brexit unicorns and Sunlit Uplands don't appear, it's the fault of traitorous Remainers thinking negative thoughts and not "pulling together" in some undefined way, but, oh, probably involving having faith.

Moussemoose · 19/11/2018 07:43

The EU is not a peace project borne out of the horrors of WW2. That’s a myth made in Brussels.

Total and utter bollocks. Other agreements were made by many other countries prior to and after WW2. However the EU was formed by WesterEuropean countries with no wish for yet another war.

1tisILeClerc · 19/11/2018 08:05

Outside:
As long as you lose out more than anyone that did not vote for this chaos I am happy.

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