If you are a Brit abroad you will have more rights post Brexit than if you are in the UK

[Bearbehind]

Verhofstadt said he was "optimistic" that a deal could be reached "in the coming weeks in the interests of the Union and in the interests of the UK.

He urged EU negotiators to offer a right to "unhindered onward movement" for UK nationals living in the EU, allowing them to move home and work between the 27 states, in return for a "right of lifelong return" for EU citizens currently in Britain who move away from the country in future.

I was in Downing Street and they are ready to go for such a trade-off," said Mr Verhofstadt. "If the Council were to push for such a solution, it is a trade-off that is possible.

From the European but covered elsewhere too.

So basically if you are from the EU living here you can come and go as you please.

If you are from the UK living in the EU now you can come and go in any of the 27 countries.

If you are from the UK and live in the UK your movement will be restricted after Brexit.

Fucking marvellous.

As a British citizen in in the EU, my FOM is essential. Many of us depend on FOM for our jobs. Without a job I couldn't afford to live here - but at the same time I would have no right to bring dh to the UK or access benefits there. I had no right to vote in the referendum which stripped me of my rights. Keeping FOM would at least limit the damage inflicted

The problem is no one in the UK seems to care. I know there's plenty on these threads. But that's not enough against the 17 million who effectively told you to get stuffed .

BCF: the Germans pay nothing for their own defence, just leech of other countries to do it for them

hardly a long-term effective strategy

FOM has no value for Brits living outside of EU - why aren't you campaigning for their 'rights' too? Or are you just a 'little EU-er'...

Did the furore about the Windrush citizens pass you by threetrees? Admittedly they were British citizens who were being treated shamefully, but at least people were campaigning for them.

and what Brits living outside the EU are you campaigning for? or don't they count.....

How do you know whether we campaign or not? I do personally, does that satisfy you? Or do we have to produce a list?

threetrees You are talking rubbish about defence

The combined UK, French and German defence budgets alone are twice the size of Russia’s.
Russia concentrates so much effort into online bots & hacking because its military is very weak for its position

In 2017, the US spent $610 bn, China $228 bn, UK $47.2 bn, Germany $ 44.3 bn, see Wiki table
Compared to what the UK spends, the difference between Germany & UK spending in amounts is trivial

However, the UK makes too many bad choices, both in vanity projects like Trident and aircraft carriers without planes,
and in being a US poodle - which sometimes makes us LESS safe:
Thousands of UK service personnel have died or been seriously injured in pointless US wars,
that have left those whole regions of the world in chaos and sent millions of refugess fleeing to the West

Germany, like most other European countries, refused to waste so many of its young people's lives.
The government listened to the people

The German people don't want to spend more on "defence"; that's democracy
As a taxpayer, I want defence cut, not increased

Ask the UK public if they'd rather spend on the defence budget, or on the NHS, or alternatively have higher taxes to spend more on both

Brexit papers write panic stories about a "European army" ramping up after Brexit
Is this a sinister development of military power, or leeching ?

Threetrees What rights of non-EU expats do you want to campaign for ?
Their rights haven't changed because of Brexit

However, there is one important long-running injustice for them, that has for many years caused hardship
and if you are genuinely concerned about their welfare, why not join this campaign:

I have long supported the campaign to have the UK state pension & its increases paid to UK pensioners abroad, so they would receive the same amount as those resident in the UK

Currently, this is only done for those living in certain countries, e.g. the 33 EEA countries, the US

However, UK pensioners in many other countries, e.g. Canada, Australia, have their pensions frozen from the day they left the UK and it is not increased
So this means some of the most frail elderly UK pensioners now live in great poverty, dependent on the charity of their host countries.

However, there is one important long-running injustice for them,

Actually, there are two.

The last Labour government took away their vote too. The Tories promised to give it back (a manifesto promise no less) but haven't.

These people are as disenfranchised as the British in Europe, and many are also affected by Brexit of course; people who live and work abroad tend to move around so freedom of movement may be important to them even if they are not currently relying on it.

BigChoc and Misti

I am quite sure that threetrees is being a GF. However, I find both your contributions provide useful information, so thanks for that.

I have long supported the campaign to have the UK state pension & its increases paid to UK pensioners abroad, so they would receive the same amount as those resident in the UK

The amounts required to do the uprating are trivial in the grand scheme of things, but it would make a great deal of difference to the individuals concerned. We have also heard a lot from Brexiters about 'the anglosphere' so this would be a good way of making life better for some citizens in said 'anglosphere'.

You are right, Misti I stand corrected:
losing the vote after 15 years is an injustice that UK expats in all countries suffer

I admit I was thinking of material harm, but although voting is an abstract right, it in practice gives us a little power.
Currently, an expat contacting "their" MP after 15 years has lost their tiny influence over that MP, who is no longer responsible for representing their interests

I learn so much from these threads. Thank you 😘

living outside the EU

What does "outside the EU" does that have to do with Brexit?

I am quite sure that threetrees is being a GF

They're following the Brexiteer script of popping up, saying "we won", "that's rubbish", "no need to panic" for a few posts, waiting for enough serious posters to invest a few minutes in making careful points, replying to obvious nonsense, and asking questions trying to get an answer other than a soundbite, and then fucking off for a few days before popping up again (with that username, anyway) and starting the whole cycle again.

They do serve a useful purpose in posting such stupid questions, misconceptions and beliefs - but ones that are shared by many Leavers - that it gives an opportunity for considered (and polite) responses demolishing their arguments . I know it's not going to convince the hard core Leavers (the ones that are real as opposed to Bots or paid GFs) but there are plenty of lurkers for whom the answers might actually give pause for thought

So I now take the view that they are helpful to the Remain cause - even if on occasion demolishing their supposedly killer "arguments" (it's actually being generous to describe them as such ) is like shooting fish in a barrel

Thy are a brilliant foil for Remain pesky facts And the interesting thing is that often when you point that out to them they disappear for a while (or pop elsewhere under a different name )

Long may they continue to post

As long as they are behind, and not in front of me at the queue in the supermarket for the last 'nice' food or A+E then I don't mind.

Do all of them ever turn up at the same time do we know, or is it just one on duty at a time?

No sure ... they never stay quite long enough to discern a posting style, beyond a pattern of behaviour

BCF: yet Germany relies on Nato to protect them under it's nuclear umbralla and major hardware .....or do you expect Merkel to just let Putin come a rollin in....

you see it's the US, French and UK taxpayer that funds the left leaning German's decadence regarding defence matters

and since when did they contibute any men or hardwear to overseas missions, fighting Isis for example? name some please

PB wrote: 'So I now take the view that they are helpful to the Remain cause smile - even if on occasion demolishing their supposedly killer "argument'

keep on dreaming Pretty Bird, keep chirping that little line in your echo chamber long enough and you'll have a mighty chorus tweeting along in usison!

DGRosetti: are you really that blind to not understand why Brexiteers never last long on left wing websites?

have a think, something to do with censorship - the left's favourite 'tactic'

yet Germany relies on Nato to protect them under it's nuclear umbralla

You are dangerously ignorant of history. Do you know anything about the world you live in? Are you too lazy to look it up?

Germany has the ability to create nuclear weapons but in the post World War II era it agreed not to possess nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. This commitment is written into international treaties.

Small minded brexiters have no interest or knowledge of the international agreements that have helped keep the world from destruction in the post war era. You and you stupid, racist, kleptocratic friends in the US want to throw all that under the bus in pursuit of - what? A white nationalist wet dream?

People who want to play fast and loose with nuclear proliferation for political ends disgust me.