To think people are creating hysteria around brexit

[whyispeppainthenightgarden]

I keep reading post about brexit And prepping and they seem to be crazy. Why are people creating so much hysteria around this. I can’t see how it would be beneficial to other countries to let it get in the state some posters are suggesting.

We may never have had this stupid Brexit vote if Cooper had beaten DC.

I mean TM. She might have stopped this insanity.

I keep hoping to see evidence that Brexiters aren't actually completely thick, and that people might have voted with a coherent plan in mind. It might make me feel better about the shitstorm to come. But this thread gives the lie to that. The jaw-dropping stupidity of some of the contributions just makes me want to weep.

Just looked at the latest DEFRA farm income figures for England - many farmers depend on the CAP payments, particularly cereals, mixed, pigs and grazing livestock to boost income over the £20k per annum level.

At least the fall in the value of sterling has boosted CAP payments recently.

In most other areas of life, if your 'business' does not provide sufficient income for those working at it and preferably at least a bit of profit, then it is not a business. Yes I Know it is complicated!

The unemployment rate in the UK is 4% (as at June 2018) so there isn’t a shortage of people to cover the farming seasonal work previously undertaken by European workers.

I’m going to guess that moving to other areas of the country temporarily to go where the work isn’t quite what people had in mind though

It is easier to get to Norfolk from Blackpool than from Albania. The Albanians can manage it so what's the 'British' excuse?

54321go Absolutely agree that businesses need to be profitable, but those farming businesses are currently going concerns because they have been structured around existing long standing incentives. Removal of those incentives without an appropriate replacement at the same time as a huge shift in market access will no doubt see many farms go bankrupt.

Absolutely. Farming is a bit of an 'all or nothing' experience in that a crop failure due to weather, or livestock loss through disease needs a special 'oversight' that takes a longer view and can provide funds to compensate for unexpected loss, meaning loss that cannot reasonably be allowed for such as hurricanes. I believe the Crown, and some churches own a vast amount of the land that is farmed.

It is easier to get to Norfolk from Blackpool than from Albania. The Albanians can manage it so what's the 'British' excuse?

Why would they need an excuse? I certainly wouldn't expect a single parent with 3 school age kids or an unfit alcoholic man 8 years from retirement to live in temporary accommodation hundreds of miles from their families and undertake heavy physical work that they're not accustomed to, for a few months a year. That applies to Albanians as well as Lancastrians and Glaswegians.

The people who travel to carry out this type of work tend to be young, fit and without ties.

I believe the Crown, and some churches own a vast amount of the land that is farmed

If we became officially, the secular republic in which most of the country believes, billions would be released for the public good. Not one more poor soul would freeze to death this winter on our streets.

Oh wonderful, it's Norman Tebbitt and his bike again. Well, I'm sure the Norfolk farmers will be delighted to get the legions of alcoholic 50+ Glaswegians picking leeks bussed in. Why let a total ignorance of how labour markets operate get in the way of a good neoliberal fantasy, hm.

Jesus wept, it keeps getting worse and worse.

{Why would they need an excuse? }
Although it is more complicated than a simple slogan but if you want to eat you need to work. Either 'produce' food yourself, or participate in any of the zillions of schemes where you do something for somebody and theygive you food or money in return.
If I don't work, I don't eat. It is pretty simple.

Another priceless Yvette Cooper face:

twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1057375934867824642

I voted for her to be Labour Leader and still think I made the right choice. Sadly, competence is an unwanted quality in politics now, people would sooner be fed unachievable fantasy - on right and left.

Although it is more complicated than a simple slogan but if you want to eat you need to work.

Yes, welcome to 1818.

54321go productive, efficent, reliable farm workers are young, fit, skilled and honest enough to be trusted with machinery and very sharp tools. They live on site in basic conditions and work long hours. They usually don't have dependents or families with them. They know how to do their jobs and want to work hard to earn the higher rates of pay.
It is nowhere near as simple as compelling students, prisoners or unemployed people to go out into the fields.
Farmers often receive below the cost of production because the industry has adapted to subsidies and protected trade.
We need to protect our domestic agriculture because of food security, quality and environmental protection as well as rural resilience.

To be honest I would prefer not to work so if I sit down and moan at everybody will I be fed and clothed?
No, I didn't think so.

I'm sure the Norfolk farmers will be delighted to get the legions of alcoholic 50+ Glaswegians picking leeks bussed in

I very carefully avoided that stereotype!

I do have a rather sad 58 year-old friend who lives in Blackpool actually. He's not an alcoholic but he did have a medical problem a few years back and is entirely unsuitable for heavy physical work or living in temporary accommodation. He's not entitled to any disability benefits and drifts between unemployment and under-employment.

Most of the the 4% unemployed are either (semi-)unemployable, in complex personal situations, avoiding work, or have a more suitable prospect than uprooting and travelling hundreds of miles for a temporary low-paid job - and probably losing their right to their social housing in their home town.

Too many people seem to have really simplistic and naive views that are just not possible to implement but that they now feel justified to assert as truth.
I blame the 'sick of experts' line. That in my view is what's caused the most damage. Even more than the bloody bus.

Farming is a bit of an 'all or nothing' experience in that a crop failure due to weather, or livestock loss through disease needs a special 'oversight' that takes a longer view and can provide funds to compensate for unexpected loss, meaning loss that cannot reasonably be allowed for such as hurricanes.

Financial help for specific issues such as foot and mouth is a completely different issue.

UK farming has developed around CAP payments over the last 40 years - in particular livestock farming relies on payments, and for instance upland sheep farmers will particularly struggle if access to their biggest market (EU) is restricted and there is an influx of cheap imports coupled with removal of CAP payments without suitable replacement.

This has the potential to completely change the UK landscape.

It’s just so dispiriting to read the views/opinions/beliefs of the ‘it’ll be ok’ brigade.
I get it - no one wants to believe it could be as bad as it could get because it is so far outside of most people’s experience that it just seems fantastical.

I wanted to leave and go to DH’s home country but was scared about disrupting the children’s education - that was not the right decision in hindsight. Not at all.

The other problem with casual seasonal labour like fruit picking is that even if you're physically capable of doing it, under our current benefits system it completely fucks you as you lose your benefits and have to re apply with the assorted delays which may cost you your home, get you into debt etc. We don't have a society structured to support those kind of work patterns and that's before we start looking at stuff like caring responsibilities etc.

@Alaaya - if we don't have a society or benefits system that supports it now, we are going to need one soon.