To think people are creating hysteria around brexit

[whyispeppainthenightgarden]

I keep reading post about brexit And prepping and they seem to be crazy. Why are people creating so much hysteria around this. I can’t see how it would be beneficial to other countries to let it get in the state some posters are suggesting.

Anyway enough people are only just managing, without having more to manage.

A comprehensive report about how we harvested agriculture, with some very enlightening links is given, saying e.g. how since the 14th century we relied on itinerant workers. Yet we still get a Leave dismissing it as a student scheme. Either it doesn't fit their prejudices or they can't read. They won't be alone in the latter, Johnson and Davis admit to not being able to read documents they sign.

@Gingerrogered

We used to get the harvest in without EU migrants before we joined the EU

No, since the Industrial Revolution the UK has struggled to get sufficient seasonal labour to work in agriculture - as I have explained in the post above.

Yes, it was a student exchange scheme. I'm not really sure how posting details of a scheme which saw students pick fruit somehow disproves that short term seasonal workers could be found if necessary

Sufficient seasonal workers could not be found in the UK, hence the 1945 Scheme, which started off as a scheme for students but almost immediately had to be opened to others as there were not sufficient foreign students applying. The 1945 scheme was necessary despite there being 400,000 POWs and 200,000 Eastern European refugees working on UK farms at the time - the POWs as forced labour.

offer them an opportunity to pay off some of their fees or save for a gap year by working and they'll get very cross

Many students, myself included, have worked on farms during the summer. It was backbreaking work for little money. The truth is that farm labour has been treated appallingly for years - as recently as 2005 the government had to set up the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority in an attempt to improve conditions for agricultural workers, but there is still evidence of exploitation by farmers and gangmasters and little in the way of unions or organised labour in the industry. The government departments tasked with ensuring that rules regarding working conditions, minimum wages etc. are adhered to are the Border Force and police (i.e. the Home Office) and HMRC. A certain Mrs May has taken great delight in cutting the size of these organisations, making them almost ineffective in this area.

Yes, it was a student exchange scheme.

Not really, it allowed for young people from Europe to come to the UK for seasonal work. It was extended incrementally until it covered 21,000 workers annually. Your grasp of history is poor.

Oh, and a new scheme is currently being piloted, so you won’t entirely get your wish to get rid of those pesky Eastern Europeans entirely.

Oh, and my student age kids have always done seasonal work, as did their mates. No gap years in sight, sorry.

Oh, and a new scheme is currently being piloted, so you won’t entirely get your wish to get rid of those pesky Eastern Europeans entirely.

It's not aimed at EU citizens though is it? When it was announced I remember wondering exactly where these workers were meant to be coming from for just a few months at a time. Albania? Turkey?

Albanians are East Europeans.........

And?

Fishes the trial SAWS allows 2500 non EU citizens to come for 6 months and only covers the proposed transition period - as FOM would continue during transition it’s to try and cover the shortfall of EU workers no longer coming to the UK.

If we crash out in March then I suspect the scheme would have to be massively expanded (ie to EU workers) given that the UK currently employs around 60,000 seasonal EU workers.

Germany allows around 60,000 Ukrainians annually to work under its scheme (in addition to seasonal workers from EU countries).

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/30/employers-required-brexit-check-eu-nationals-right-to-work-uk

I’m an EU national, been in the UK since I was five years old. Have right to remain and right to work in the UK. Never had any intention of becoming a British citizen. DH is from Canada and has also kept his nationality. DT’s were born in the UK but have Canadian citizenship. However DH and I have now decided it’s time to quit the UK.

Sorry we've driven you away parker, we'll have plenty of time to repent at leisure.

shiftless wastrel working classes Seriously Ginger wasted on here and possibly in just about every job you have ever done

Unless those jobs were in S&M ?

Or advertising ?

< S&M = sales & marketing >

Or politics

Or Meedja !

Honestly Ginger I feel a book in you , can I suggest a title ? How does 'A new road to Wigan pier ' sound ?

Doing the fruit/veg picking ourselves might not be such a terrible idea. Think of the savings that parents could make on school holiday childcare. They might actually bring a bit of money in. Presumably the minimum wage for 7 year olds will be lower than for adults.

It will be a pot-holed bypass with a variable speed limit due to roadworks, where locals weave a treacherous and uncertain path across her Majesties highway in their haste to reach Home Bargains.

The issue with this veg and fruit picking is the expectation that it has to be done 'cheap', while in some cases the farm owners are getting handsomely paid. I realise this is not always the case but to slightly separate the 'picking' (and the real hard work stuff) and pay that properly would be an improvement. A properly thought out and funded 'food production' system is needed. The government have always intervened and messed about, changing rules and regulations and almost always put the costs on smaller farmers and let them cary the risk of failed harvest or disease wiping out livestock.
Of course the supermarkets with their ulterior motives of 'discounting' some lines to generate footfall rather than consideration for the smaller producer.

Can we 'blame' the EU for that though 54321go that is the really important question ?

Not necessarily. I don't know how the agriculture sector works in other European countries. The farmers in France seem to be permanently busy and I think they must get payments for maintaining hedgerows and verves for example, unless that is being done by the 'council' unlike the half hearted attempts in the UK where they will only cut the grass verges back by 1 metre where I used to live.
Like Gove and his 'education reforms' there is far too much 'making a mark' and changing things, often for the sake of it, rather than adjusting things that need tweaking rather than messing up the whole thing.

Verves meaning verges of course!

54321go most farming enterprises are not hugely profitable, with the business owners in many cases not owning the land.
Increases in pay for farm workers will increase the cost of production of food and should therefore result in higher food prices - but usually other influences come into play and so the farmer loses out.
See the NFU response to the increase in the living wage in the Budget.
A lot of debate going on about the agriculture bill at the moment is around whether we should be subsidising farmers for food production or just environmental protection.

And the new scheme proposed does cover EU citizens, but is inadequate in terms of numbers allowed and the length of time they can stay.

I agree that silly letters to politicians from children and dogs will only encourage them not to take remainers seriously. Brexit isn't a joke or a learning opportunity.