People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

Oh really? Whe adult universal suffrage was introduced was there a clause saying voters must be well informed? Only the right sort of people should be able to vote.

I thought Cameron came back with quite a few concessions; when you go to the bargaining table you never expect to come away with everything you asked for. We already had lots of opt outs and there were things regarding immigration etc that we didn't implement ; a lot of it being due to having a rubbish Home Secretary [who now just happens to be PM]. Cameron has also proved himself to be a weak leader and a weak negotiator so it's no wonder he didn't get as many concessions as he wanted. As for the manifesto, I nearly, for the first time in my life, voted Conservative, because they were offering things that would have benefitted me and my family, but, for some reason they never came about.

Only the right sort of people should be able to vote.

Good, good, another one twisting my words to avoid responding to the actual point I was making.

How can you defend someone casting a vote on a subject they have not looked into at all?

How can you defend someone casting a vote on a subject they have not looked into at all? People vote like this at every GE. You don't have to pass a test before voting. I voted Remain in exactly this way. I didn't think leaving Europe was a good idea for many reasons but I didn't do any research at all.

I think Cameron is a massive wanker but his negotiations with rEU eclipse those of the current PM.

www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-eu-reform-deal-scorecard-brexit-eu-referendum-agreement/

derxa has just exemplified what I have found with many remain voters I know in real life. They don't like change so voted remain but didn't bother to look into it to any degree.

Lucky for Leave that 5 million British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in Britain weren't allowed to vote though.

Would have been looking at an extremely comfortable win for remain.

There would have been a few grumbles, and everyone would have been able to spend the money we've wasted on this shambles on the NHS, schools and Social care.

We'd probably be barely able to remember the poll by now.

how can you defend someone voting on a subject that they haven't even attempted to inform themselves about?
Because like it or not, that is the law.
Also, I have no idea how your plan to restrict the number of voters would be put into practice.
Have you got any ideas how your law would be enforced?

derxa has just exemplified what I have found with many remain voters I know in real life. They don't like change so voted remain but didn't bother to look into it to any degree. No I'm not risk averse. I just didn't want this change. I had no reason to want to leave the EU since I'm quite well off. If my life was shit and I was poor my perception might have been quite different.

they haven't even attempted to inform themselves about
Those who weren't deemed 'forrins' and who did vote were lied to in an illegal campaign.

It's the fibby campaigners and skewed (and breaching of Human Rights) plebiscite we should be stopping not the innocent voters.

A voter is never guilty. Of anything. Including not knowing stuff.

woman11017 ask them to vote on the issue is a bit like asking me to vote on wether to give up chocolate or not,

A voter is never guilty. Of anything. Including not knowing stuff. I know you're being sarcastic but you're absolutely correct.

I didn't think leaving Europe was a good idea for many reasons but I didn't do any research at all.

That doesn't even make sense. Surely your reasons were based on something?

I am absolutely not being sarcastic. I couldn't be more serious. derxa

I am really concerned about voters being blamed or insulted.

Votes are precious. For everyone. No matter how they vote.

The only ones who deserve criticism are those who fibbed to voters.

I've only learnt more about the EU since June 2016.

I didn't know enough to have been given that vote, if it had been based on knowledge about the issue.

It should have been done differently.

But we are where we are.

But I never would blame voters. Ever.

Because, like it or not, that is the law
Also, I have no idea how your plan to restrict the number of voters would be put into practice.
Have you got any ideas how your law would be enforced?

Of course it cannot be put into practice, which I stated at the time.

It's more about people having the personal integrity to inform themselves before they vote.

This was discussed in the thread, 2 fucking years ago!

What is your problem?

Why do you keep dragging this up even when it's not what we are talking about now?

We don't agree.

You can't argue why I'm wrong other than it's the law.

So just let it go.

That doesn't even make sense. Surely your reasons were based on something? It does make sense. I'm nearly 60. I've got a fairly good grasp of history etc. etc. What I mean is I didn't read or listen to the propaganda from either side very much. Is that OK for you?

I'd love it if Leavers were held to account over every single thing they've said over the last 2 years.

Many of them have done a massive u-turn on multiple things and now directly contradict their previous views.

I've not even changed my view on this and yet somehow something I said 2 years ago is being dragged out by 1 poster whenever they feel like it.

I believe people should own their choices - regardless of which way they voted.

I recall giving examples of ridiculous reasons on both sides such as choosing Remain to still be able to play Euromillions or Leave because they don't give us points in Eurovision.

Now will you either put up a decent argument about why you think those reasons are acceptable dapple or let it drop.

It is fucking creepy now.

It does make sense. I'm nearly 60. I've got a fairly good grasp of history etc. etc. What I mean is I didn't read or listen to the propaganda from either side very much. Is that OK for you?

So what you are saying is you did understand the basics- which was all I was saying was required.

You didn't stick your finger in the air and take a completely blind guess.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/23/dyson-to-build-electric-cars-in-singapore-with-launch-planned-for-2021

Brexiteers' friend Dyson shafts the UK yet again. There needs to be a concerted boycott of the products and services of any business that supported this unremittingly crap decision to leave the EU.

Ah another stalwart Leaver doesn't back his country up. Such patriotism on display. And then people wonder why Remainers are a bit sick of their behaviour.

My Dyson is on its last legs and I won't be getting another one.

..it's amazing how many Bollox to Brexit stickers I see on his hand dryers when I'm out and about. Can't think where they're coming from.....[walks away whistling....]

It's really quite obvious, give the people FACTS rather than hysterical crap and then let them have a vote on the final deal if any. Twatting about saying we don't want immigrants is not a good reason to leave nor is stating we'll get 350million for the NHS as if that was ever going to happen.
We don't need this mess to pass on to our kids as my dd said WHY ARE PEOPLE DOING THIS TO US, she missed the vote 3months and she's not at all happy that she's accruing £30,000 of debt to live in a third world bleddy Country.

We must do something to stop the madness now!

..it's amazing how many Bollox to Brexit stickers I see on his hand dryers when I'm out and about. Can't think where they're coming from.....[walks away whistling....]

That reminds me - must pop in to local Wetherspoons later.

I am very tempted to get a lot of bollux to B stickers, but only dryer I know of is at a supermarket I almost never to to. Am chicken about being caught on CCTV. I Flipping hate Wetherspoons, though, I could happily be banned from their premises (muse).

Wetherspoons is the haunt of the EDL so I'll give them a miss, where can I get some bollocks to brexit stickers from ?