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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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Thread gallery
43
RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 17:39

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
PM proposes “legally binding” joint UK-EU joint customs territory to help break impasse

PM quote about “Temporary Customs Arrangement”

“we must make the commitment to a temporary UK-EU joint customs territory legally binding, so the Northern Ireland only proposal is no longer needed.

This would not only protect relations North-South, but also, vitally, East-West”

It definitely walks like a customs union, and talks like a customs union... it looks like a customs union... so what is it?

A new customs territory comprising of the joint customs territory of the customs territory of the U.K. and the customs territory of the EU.

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RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 17:45

Ian Dunt @iandunt
JRM finally gets it. Says "implementation period" used to refer to implementing something that had already been agreed. But now it appears to be about getting time for more negotiations.

Hi Jacob! Welcome aboard. You've finally figured it out.

Brexiters talk just like Remainers with a two-year delay.

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RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 17:53

Sam Coates Times @samcoatestimes
Why is this guarantee necessary?

From TM statement

Only necessary if NI in some way different regulatory environment, surely?

Tom McTague @ tommctague
.@SamCoatesTimes spots a clue to where we are going. My guess: Offer of unilateral GB harmonisation with Northern Ireland in the event the yet-to-be-agreed EU backstop comes into force, which London wants to become UK-wide customs but NI-only "full alignment" with EU regs

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
May says these four things have to happen....
1. legally binding UK wide backstop
2. option to extend the implementation period
3. neither 1. or 2. can be indefinite
4. govt to guarantee NI biz full access to rest of the UK

Stuart Wood @stuartwood
Hang on.... Why on earth does the PM need to make the 4th pledge? Only if she foresees a deal in which there is a regulatory border between Northern Ireland & Great Britain. If the DUP & Brexiteers aren't going bananas, they should be, and will be soon

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
I suspect it might be designed to have persuaded Steve Baker to withdraw his amendments... @SteveBakerHW ?

Stephen Walker @stepwalktv
In response to a question from @eastantrimmp the PM says the UK will leave the EU as one - says they reject idea that NI to be treated differently.

Sam Coates Times*@samcoatestimes*
So what happens to NI - and GB - regulations under the backstop

- will there be GB to NI check

- cd NI be in different regulatory environment backstop

OR

cd GB unilaterally align with NI in backstop on regulations

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
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Mightybanhammer · 22/10/2018 17:55

I've written again to my MP - a Tory whip, asking him his views in the March of 700,000. - more than the official members of Tory and labour parties combined( pinched that from the graun Ed)

Also challenging him on the vile and bellicose language allegedly used by his fellow MPs over the weekend. Was tempted to add ( bellicose- that means warlike) but no one likes a smart arse...

And finally on his own views on Brexit negotiations and irish border. In his own words, rather than a rambling cut and paste policy statement. Grin

I couldn't have joined the March as crowds freak me out massively. Kudos to the poster who felt the fear and did it anyway Hasenstein ?

I have offered to pay half the expenses of one of my friends who went instead. We are a long way from London.

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 17:56

Harry Cole @ mrharrycole
PM says fishermen are at the "forefront of our thinking" when it comes to looking at all the different options.

Don't you just wish Farage had been responsible for something other than the flaming fisheries?

Imagine if he'd done something to do with car manufacturers.

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Hasenstein · 22/10/2018 18:13

Wow, Hazard, I've just heard back from my MP attaching a letter from the Health Secretary.

In essence, it's just repeating what's already been said - aware that ensuring continuity of supply of medicines, isotopes, vaccines, devices etc. is essential.

Well, duh.

Their commitment to ensuring safe & timely access remains unchanged. Working with partners across government, health sector and industry to prepare for "possible disruption" in supply chain.

phew

Their contingency plans include sensible strategies for medicines ..., such as precautionary stockpiling by suppliers, ... (my bold).

Also says: all prescription-only medicines and pharmacy-only medicines with an EU/EEA touchpoint are included in the stockpiling scheme.

Finishes off by saying: We are encouraging all suppliers with a medicine supply chain that includes an EU/EEA touchpoint to consider contingency plans to ensure continuity of supply in the event of a no-deal EU exit.

In other words, we've asked suppliers to stockpile (where, how?), so we've done all we can and it's no longer up to us. Buck duly passed

Rest is just "ensure leaving EU is a success for health and social sector as well as all UK" bollocks

So, I'm going to write back asking why full onus is being placed on suppliers and what the government intends to do if they don't/can't/won't comply.

Any other suggestions as to what I should ask?

At least my MP took the trouble to respond and asked the Health Secretary for appropriately anodyne wording

prettybird · 22/10/2018 18:19

I see on one of the "People's March" threads that the placards being carried by the people on that went on it (not going to say "Remainers" as some of them voted Leave and/or may just want to see a vote to address the division in the UK) are being criticised by a prolific Leave poster for "not being nasty enough" Confused

We can't win Confused literally Sad

Hasenstein · 22/10/2018 18:21

Mightybanhammer

I normally get very stressed in large crowds (still have nightmares about being crushed in a narrow street in Japan on a public holiday visit to a shrine, along with seemingly half of Tokyo), but never felt a twinge this time, despite it being pretty cramped on Park Lane for a couple of hours.

I put it down to being surrounded by the nicest people you could ever wish to meet. All 700,000 of them. Grin

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 18:31

Any other suggestions as to what I should ask?

What legal steps have the government taken to ensure suppliers are stockpiling the required amount of drugs for any interruption to supply, and if no such legal obligation has been actioned, why not and when will you (your MP) be raising this concern in Parliament.

If there is no legal obligation, the suppliers do not have to take action if they chose not to. It is the responsibility of government not business to ensure medical supplies are maintained during an emergency or crisis situation.

Therefore is there an emergency or crisis plan in place, if suppliers fail to stockpile? If not when will you (your MP) be raising this question as a matter of urgency.

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Hasenstein · 22/10/2018 18:34

Thanks, RTB, will shamelessly take all that practically verbatim!

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 18:38

No shame about it. Hope it works.

I can't see much wriggle room in there.

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PineappleSunrise · 22/10/2018 18:40

Don't worry, prettybird. That particular complaint has been one of the bright points in my day, as it's confirmed that the complainer is really scraping the barrel for opportunities to feel victimised!

prettybird · 22/10/2018 18:42

Grin pineapple! True Smile

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 18:49

Honestly I swear half the time, muppets in government fail to understand a) what their legal obligations are b) think of the most basic of questions.

You have to spoon feed them. Once in writing they have a responsibility to action something.

Also they know if they give you a bullshit answer and it does all go tits up then they also know there's someone out there with their bullshit response.

It's all about pinning them down.

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Hazardswan · 22/10/2018 18:52

all EU touchpoint meds

That's actual progress (if true). red phrased what i wanted to say better so yeah ask that please hasenstein and maybe how long is "possible disruption" days/wks/months? And maybe something about are the gov going to facilitate/assist in storage or do they expect business to foot the bill?

Very well done hasen!!!! First meaty response I've seen. FlowersWine

I'm going to try to stop stressing about what will be added to the non form lists and wondering if businesses will stockpile things they expect to go on it as demand will be low

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2018 19:37

Brexit threatens UK's future as manufacturing hub, says Philips chief executive

News from other firms too

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-threaten-uk-manufacturing-future-philips-chief-executive-frans-van-houten-a8596381.html

Frans van Houten concerned about lack of progress on a deal between the UK and the EU
< you're not the only one, mate >

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2018 19:40

NI bordersplaining
mobile.twitter.com/BorderIrish/status/1054280929525616641

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 19:42

Sam Coates Times @samcoatestimes
MPs telling me that the real reason Steve Baker pulled his amendments was because the DUP wouldnt support them, so hard for him to claim they were in NI interest

- Baker says the reasons were procedural.

(Amendment would have in effect made the backstop illegal)

And

Sam Coates Times @samcoatestimes
I’m being told government has pulled offensive weapons bill (again)

(Second time in a week)

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RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 20:17

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
EXC: Former defence secretary Michael Fallon has a new £75,000-a-year job advising a Gulf investment firm which bills itself as "one of the most active investors in Saudi Arabia"

Michael Fallon's new company - paying him £788 an hour - has been one of the largest investors in Saudi Arabia in the last 10 years. His new boss has repeatedly praised crown prince Mohammed bin Salman. And its CEO is off to Davos in the desert tomorrow...

Fallon (who previously told MPs they should stop criticising Saudi to keep megabucks deals on the table) is told he should "question his deeply uncomfortable connection" after he announced his new £6,300 a month job at the height of the Khashoggi scandal

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/this-former-defence-secretary-is-being-paid-ps788-an-hour
This Former Defence Secretary Is Being Paid £788 An Hour By "One Of The Most Active Investors In Saudi Arabia"

Exclusive: Michael Fallon has been told to question his "deeply uncomfortable" new £75,000-a-year job advising a Gulf investment firm.

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Peregrina · 22/10/2018 20:21

I think now, that even if Brexit could be stopped somehow, businesses will still leave. Imagine that you are in France or NL or Ireland, and have already made significant investment, are you going to let it go to waste? E.g. like the ferry service between Dublin and Rotterdam, which was initially planned for the UK and then got diverted.

No doubt the decisions will depend on hard business analysis; it won't be because the other countries feel sorry for us.

Mrsr8 · 22/10/2018 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 20:26

And two minutes later, I read a local news story in which I find my Labour has been on a ridiculous number of foreign trips - for the benefit of constituents including one paid for by a company which recently did a stitch up on a green belt area...

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RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 20:28

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
I do wonder whether this website will ultimately prove terminal for Theresa May.

standup4brexit.com

42 MPs now publicly declared against the backstop, the common rule book and something obtuse to do with benefits.

Watching the numbers go up...

Shane Hackett @butchhackett
43 now. Another release at 8.30pm.

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RedToothBrush · 22/10/2018 20:40

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Boris Johnson becomes MP 44 in this campaign

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Mrsr8 · 22/10/2018 20:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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