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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 11:45

I could believe in a trial of "Misconduct in Public Office" after a Brexit crash and a far left govt,
especially if any past or present ministers have close associations with people who made billions from it

We can think of a few in the Leave campaign
Might even extend to MPs

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 12:04

Alexei Sayle wrote a wonderful short story where a load of OAPs became contract killers on the basis that it was better to die in prison, warm and fed, than the miserable cold and hungry ends so many pensioners face.

It did set me wondering about the practicalities of setting up such a service Hmm. (The story was written about the turn of the millennium, so social media wasn't really a thing at the time).

Mrsr8 · 24/10/2018 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KennDodd · 24/10/2018 12:21

Oh the irony if Farage had to seek asylum.

Mrsr8 · 24/10/2018 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mistigri · 24/10/2018 12:29

Boris is a US citizen of course

Didn't he have to give up his US citizenship?

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 12:30

Boris is a US citizen of course

I thought - amid a great shower of headlines - he renounced that ?

If not, he should piss off and be US President. 50% of Trump voters wouldn't even notice.

bellinisurge · 24/10/2018 12:31

He hasn't renounced it. Like my 11 year old dd and brushing her hair, he probably "forgot ".

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 12:32

May just said they are looking at regulation of NDAs in response to a general PMQ from Jess Phillips on the subject...

David TC Davis also talked about the silencing of women over the GRA consultation.

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 12:34

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
Cabinet yesterday discussed the contingency of a state run or operated flotilla to keep just in time trade flowing in the event of No Deal Brexit customs checks being applied under EU law in 5 months time - no precedent in peacetime. No questions to PM so far.

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lonelyplanetmum · 24/10/2018 12:36

Sigh-13% that's worse than anticipated already.

theconversation.com/brexit-has-already-hurt-eu-and-non-eu-exports-by-up-to-13-new-research-105334

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 12:36

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
Sir Jeremy Heywood's uses his resignation statement to attack 'noises off from anonymous commentators' attacking civil service.

The civil service, he says, is in 'robust health' & 'well-equipped' to provide the support Britain needs 'over the coming months and years'

Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound
Didn't prepare for Brexit. Didn't prepare for no deal...

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Peregrina · 24/10/2018 12:43

Reading about the appalling Kashoggi case and the power struggle now playing out between Turkey and Saudi Arabia, set me thinking that this could be one of those totally unrelated and unexpected events from a UK/EU perspective, which non the less rippled throughout the rest of the political world.

Why? Causing shifting alignments? Haven't the UK, France and Germany jointly condemned the act? The Skripal poisonings, where the Government was quick to point the finger, and take action, didn't manage to kill the intended victims, only killing that poor woman by accident. There wasn't, to my knowledge, the cold blooded brutality of the Kashoggi case. I know they are still dithering about doing anything effective no doubt because there are so many juicy Arms sales riding on it.

PineappleSunrise · 24/10/2018 12:44

To be fair to the Civil Service, they are literally there to get on with doing what they are told to do even if they think it's batshit.

Peregrina · 24/10/2018 12:45

Didn't Johnson eventually resign his citizenship when the USA came for some tax? Until then, he'd not got round to it. I wonder if he can reclaim it?

1tisILeClerc · 24/10/2018 12:48

{Cabinet yesterday discussed the contingency of a state run or operated flotilla to keep just in time trade flowing in the event of No Deal Brexit}
So who would be paying for this and surely it is illegal under various trade rules as it is 'state sponsorship'?

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 12:48

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Theresa May tells @JacobReesMogg that the ECJ will have no ongoing jurisdiction in the UK after Brexit. Except, she’s just agreed that it will - as per @nick_gutteridge’s excl story today;

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7566796/brexit-legal-disputes-negotiators-cave-in/
British negotiators tell Brussels that European Court of Justice ‘will get final say’ on Brexit legal disputes

Officials have caved into demands that the ECJ be the 'ultimate arbiter' on cases of European law

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PineappleSunrise · 24/10/2018 12:51

He did, according to numerous news articles from last year, including this one in the NYT:

www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/world/europe/britain-boris-johnson-renounces-american-citizenship.html

woman11017 · 24/10/2018 12:52

No questions to PM so far

Mass starvation is a bit embarrassing?

Hazardswan · 24/10/2018 13:12

Wow this thread is moving quick.

Stayed up half night. I now know more than I did about mainland EU hospitals with specialisms, visas and work permits.

Exciting times Hmm

Also came across the EU planning for no deal....miles ahead of us. It's like we're this shit on purpose.

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 13:21

twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1055068630671679488
Secret Barrister explainer on the Injunction story. It seems that at the moment there is an interim injunction in place, whilst they decide whether it is in the public interest to disregard the NDA. As such, the court had to rule on the probability of whether that judgement would win, and since there is doubt they had to give a temporary injunction, in favour of the NDA, just in case.

So it looks like this is a ruling about a potential ruling.

I do get this, but it does highlight just how NDAs are obstructive to transparency and silence those without money or a powerful newspaper to back them up.

They need a serious legal overhaul.

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 13:25

Sam McBride @SJAMcBride
In a sparsely-populated chamber, Secretary of State Karen Bradley says "this bill does not give civil servants any new powers". That's a bold claim, given that the courts say civil servants have no power to take ministerial decisions - and this law would give them that power.

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ShinyElena · 24/10/2018 13:30

Karen Bradley might even believe that. After all she only recently found out that people in NI vote along sectarian lines.

fieldgold · 24/10/2018 13:47

What is NDA please?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 13:53

Non-Disclosure Agreement
A legal gag