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Brexit
Original poster

Has anyone noticed how often Leavers say 'I'm not going to change my mind'

101 replies

Bearbehind · 13/10/2018 17:47

Or words to that effect.

I've literally never heard anyone on the Remain side say that. We all just say 'show me the benefits and I might change my mind'

It now seems like a point of principle among Leavers that they aren't going to change their minds, no matter what.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bearbehind · 14/10/2018 11:41

In answer to your question, I'm none of your options.

I'm just still looking for a bright side to this mess.

OP posts:
surferjet · 14/10/2018 11:43

You’re a combination of all 3 sweetheart.

Talkstotrees · 14/10/2018 11:45

Valuable input as always surfer Hmm

Original poster
Bearbehind · 14/10/2018 11:48

It's no coincidence all the insults are coming from Leavers is it?

It's just another blocking technique.

Two and a half years on, we should be able to have a sensible discussion about Brexit.

Leavers should be able to explain, in great detail, what the benefits are.

Yet it's still just a case where they are using any method possible to shut down arguments, the most dangerous of which I highlighted in my OP.

It's simply insanity to refuse to take any notice of any of the evidence now available.

Posters like wine can never actually explain why they don't care what the consequences are.

OP posts:
KennDodd · 14/10/2018 11:50

@emmeyebea

Sorry. I read it as - Perhaps it are fed up with being insulted and called names by the Remainers the reason they havent changed their view is BECAUSE of the name calling? That was the point of the OP, wondering why leavers haven't change their minds. I do wonder that myself especially given the weight of new information. Fear of looking foolish does seem to be s big driver (according to research in links) in entrenching views even though ironically it makes people look even more foolish if they just dismiss evidence.

Anyway @emmeyebea perhaps you could explain what you did mean by that. Happy to listen and sorry if I misinterpreted.

KennDodd · 14/10/2018 12:08

Have you read the whole thread @surferjet? There are some really thought provoking links.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 14/10/2018 17:12

There's things going on in Brussels tonight - maybe we will at least get to know whether it's BINO or No Deal.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 14/10/2018 17:20

"They're just being meanies so I won't look at evidence ". I'd be disappointed in a 10 year old saying that.
I will come on here and in real life apologise wholeheartedly if I am wrong. I really want to be wrong. Really truly.
Grow up !

emmeyebea · 15/10/2018 14:03

KennDodd your assumption was that I was including myself among Leavers who had been spoken to that way - as evidenced by your response - and your assertion that I am doing something stupid (which rather proves the point I was making in the first place).

KennDodd · 15/10/2018 14:37

@emmeyebea

I didn't assume anything about how or if you voted. I used the word 'you' in the general sense not specific and not directed at you individually. Sorry if it was unclear.

I still don't really understand what you ment by this statement though - Perhaps Leavers are fed up with being insulted and called names by the Remainers

Is it just a general statement then and not being put forward as a reason for becoming entrenched in your view? From reading the psychology behind this, insults and fear of looking foolish DO entrench people in their views so putting that forward as a reason is not without foundation.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 15/10/2018 15:17

I wonder if this 'fact' might be taken seriously.

Pretty sure those Nissan workers who voted Leave didn't vote for this.

I really do hope this starts to make Leavers question things.

OP posts:
Talkstotrees · 15/10/2018 15:26

Of course it won’t Bear. It’s just elite, bullying, globalist business taking advantage of the situation. They’re punishing the workers. In cahoots with the corrupt EU, don’tcha know?

Original poster
Bearbehind · 15/10/2018 15:28

You're probably right talk but maybe if people actually see it hitting their pockets as clearly as this, they might take a bit of notice.

OP posts:
KennDodd · 15/10/2018 20:09

I think leavers need somebody to blame. If I were them I'd blame the politicians who lied to them. They'll probably blame whoever the lying politicians tell them to blame though.

BeaTrewts · 16/10/2018 00:40

I think remainers need somebody to blame. At the moment the leavers are in the firing line, rather than the politicians who lied to them.

bellinisurge · 16/10/2018 06:09

@BeaTrewts I don't have to look far for someone to blame for the shitshow.

Peregrina · 16/10/2018 08:11

At the moment the leavers are in the firing line, rather than the politicians who lied to them.

We have had post after post from leavers calling us 'reomoaners', and saying 'You lost.' When asked 'what law don't you agree with', it's usually 'you are bullying us' and a flounce out.

Why aren't they questioning why Davis didn't get stuck into negotiating? After two years, after agreeing what May proposed at Chequers he decided he'd walk out.

Johnson, a failure as a Foreign Sec, 7 months after agreeing the Backstop with the EU about NI then witters that he didn't know what he was signing up for. What did his expensive education teach him?

We have had some (not all) Leavers saying that 'everyone said we would leave the single market'. No, the 2015 Tory Manifesto contained a commitment to the Single Market. Two seconds googling will find a YouTube video of Farage, Hannan etc. extolling the virtues of Norway and Iceland, who are not in the EU. But whoops, they didn't do their homework, they then found out that both countries had signed up to Schengen and had FoM.

So why, with a few honourable exceptions, are leavers not blaming that sorry crowd?

More generally the BBC the night before the Referendum interviewed someone who said that she'd be angry if the NHS didn't get more money. Why don't they go back to her and ask whether her local NHS has seen more money, and how she feels now?

KennDodd · 16/10/2018 08:47

I think remainers need somebody to blame. At the moment the leavers are in the firing line

I agree. I know personally I do blame leave voters as well as politicians and the racist press. I saw Tracey Emin on Newsnight a while ago, she said she voted leave because she likes chaos and wanted chaos so i guess she's getting what she voted for.

Peregrina · 16/10/2018 08:58

As a Remainer, I think it's fine to blame Farage, Gove, Davis, and all the others for lying and cheating. I have much more sympathy for those who voted Leave thinking they were voting for more money for the NHS.

But there are people like DS's friend who voted Leave. Why? Dunno, was the response! When he was asked how he would vote in the Witney by election when Cameron stood down - I don't vote was the answer. He's a nice chap, but honestly, how pretty stupid. He has his own business - let's see what Brexit does for it.

KennDodd · 16/10/2018 09:13

I think people who didn't vote are undeserving of criticism as well although they seem to get an awful lot of it. The referendum asked an immensely complicated question, the amount of research needed to be even basically informed is far beyond what is reasonable to expect from the average voter. People saying 'I just don't know' and not voting is much better and more honest IMO than those would only read the headlines on the Daily Mail and then think their a fucking expert, and I've met loads of those. Two years on we are all much better informed.

KennDodd · 16/10/2018 09:42

CORRECTION

It was Julie Burchill who voted Leave because she wanted chaos NOT Tracey Emin.

TheFishInThePot · 16/10/2018 10:21

Everyone I know who voted to leave would now want to remain.

indistinct · 16/10/2018 11:49

@TheFishInThePot
Suggest you ask those leavers to write to their MP, March on 20th October and help to put pressure on parliament and government to consider 2nd referendum or revoking A50 outright. Changed leave voices may be more persuasive than steadfast remainers in this task.

TheFishInThePot · 16/10/2018 14:27

I'm going on the March, I've directed people towards the petition.
I was very on the fence/ swaying towards leave myself until the very last day.
I also saw this on twiter yesterday.twitter.com/i/status/1051115700704763905

TheFishInThePot · 16/10/2018 14:35

There are also these lovely people who changed there minds the next day!

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