Has anyone noticed how often Leavers say 'I'm not going to change my mind'

[Bearbehind]

Or words to that effect.

I've literally never heard anyone on the Remain side say that. We all just say 'show me the benefits and I might change my mind'

It now seems like a point of principle among Leavers that they aren't going to change their minds, no matter what.

Everyone on all sides said a vote to leave the EU would mean leaving the single market and the custom's union.

Winebottle Correction: Leavers were denying that it meant leaving the Single Market:
Isn't it inconvenient that for , that we can capture them via the Internet and keep their lies in public view. One Daniel Hannon clip was from Newsnight after the result was declared, and you can just about hear Evan Davis's exasperated voice being cut off.

Cross post with a few others. If you only saw the first frame, the 'no one said' narrative would fit, but you need to watch the whole excerpt.

Oh, and we heard Gisela Stuart, Gove, and Johnson immediately renege on the pledge to give more money to the NHS within twenty four hours. "We said we could give more, we didn't say we would", were their words if I recall correctly.

After they championed Norway, Iceland, Switzerland they then realised that they were all countries in Schengen and had FoM. Whoops! Daniel Hannon then tried to use Liechtenstein as an example of one which didn't have FoM - a tiny mountainous country, with a population the size of Oxford, with virtually nowhere to put any more people. The comparison with a country of 65 million, overcrowded in the south east, but with ample space elsewhere, was ludicrous.

This arrogant shape shifting nonsense is one of the reasons I don't feel bad about keeping my stash of food to myself and my close family if things get tough.

While some will openly state that they won’t change their minds, many are reading/lurking and altering their views.

Perhaps it is because Leavers are fed up with being insulted and called names by the Remainers.

At the end of the day we live in a democracy. There will always be people on the 'losing' side. They will always think that they should have won and that the people who voted differently are wrong.

The trouble is, as a democracy, we can't really have it any other way, can we?

I have quite the opposite experience OP.

All the Remainers I know are not only dead set in their ways, but aggressive about those who think otherwise.

I think you know that, too, though, don't you?

I'm remain I won't change my mind. BUT I am prepared to be reassured it won't be as bad as I think. I was prepared to complain a bit and moan but if I could see some benefits just put up with it.

However, the total inability to come up with one tangible benefit has forced me to work to hold another referendum. I want a policy reversal I am not prepared to put up with total pig headed stupidity that is Brexit.

I wouldn't change my mind but I was prepared to be comforted and grudgingly get on with it.

Honest enough?

Perhaps it is because Leavers are fed up with being insulted and called names by the Remainers.

I have found that Leavers give as good as they get or more. On another thread the first response a Leaver sent me was to F* off. It wasn't in response to my language, I can tell you that.

I am still waiting for Leavers to tell me some benefits - ones which are agreed, not the if then and maybe we might do such and such.

What have we had agreed so far? Blue passports, and Theresa May has announced a Festival of Brexit. Where are the jobs, housing reforms to make it possible for younger people to have secure accommodation, money for education?

Leavers can call me all the names they want and I am more than happy to be proved wrong. This is not the playground. If anyone is sticking to silly views just because they don't want to be embarrassed and other people are being "mean", we are all screwed. For. Fuck's. Sake.

Leaving the EU could bring forward something that I want to happen by 20 years (if it were ever going to happen at all): independence for Scotland

But despite that, I don't want it to happen that way - I don't want the damage that Brexit is going to bring about to the people of the UK - especially the poorest and most vulnerable - to be the catalyst that finally gets more than 60% of the Scottish electorate to realise that the UK is a broken institution and that Scotland has a right to self-determination.

@bellinisurge

I do expect Leave voters to own what's coming.

I agree. And govenment. I bet they won't though, they'll just continue to blame the EU/Remainers/business/immigrants. In fact I bet immigrants will get the worse of it and anti immigration/anti EU feelings increase after Brexit.

I also suspect their will be some sort of short term fudge deal by which on Brexit day not much changes and the can is just kicked two years down the road. Leave will then say, that doom and gloom predictions were wrong.

@emmeyebea

Perhaps it is because Leavers are fed up with being insulted and called names by the Remainers

Maybe. Although if your reason for clinging to a bad idea, despite clear evidence from your own side (gov impact assessments) is because somebody called you names, will that does sound like a stupid thing to do. I get that it might be human nature to do that though.

Also while the remain side have name called, leavers have been violently aggressive (Britain First etc)

OP you’re an idiot 🙈

I’ve only heard leavers say ‘I’m not going to change my mind’ in response to being berated relentlessly by remainers.

It seems to me that remainers are to the Brexit situation what loud and opinionated vegans are to a dinner out with friends 😒 They put their argument forward but when a leaver says “I still don’t agree” they take it as a personal offense and won’t leave it alone!

I’m not an avid leaver, I personally this there was no ‘good’ outcome option. But the EU were offered ample chance to negotiate, they basically laughed in our faces, the country voted and now we’re leaving.

If you don’t like it, you don’t like democracy ... end of!

To be fair, I’m Remain and I’m not likely to change my mind.

But it’s the attitude of people like Winebottle that riles me. To be really not bothered at all about whatever damage there is to the economy. Wow, just wow. In order to get intangible benefits like ‘getting our sovereignty back’ what does that even mean in a global economy and when we’re going to be even more in the thrall of an over-reaching US. As we will be more isolated economically and politically, we’ll have to dance even more to the American tune.

But yes, I really want to be proven wrong. Because it’s not really me that’s going to be affected by this, it’s my children and my children’s children. So yes, I want them to have more of a say than my parents and parents in law, so a second referendum on what’s actually going to happen, rather than what people were misled was going to happen is perfectly reasonable in my view.

I hope we have a second vote as well. I think (hope) remain will win but I think it's only likely to be by a similar margin leave won by, so not much. I don't think this will heal the damage the ref has done although it will stop much more damage to the economy (hopefully I will keep my job). To stop (or reduce) the squabbling, I think one side needs a 60% plus win. Another referendum also allows leave voters to save face though, if remain won they could then go on about how great it would have been, how much richer, freer etc etc without ever being called on it.

IAmAllAsttonishnent

This is the nub of the issue. You think you are putting forward a good argument. You don't want to be "berated endlessly" and you don't want to be called names.

Yet you start your post with an insult and end with "If you don’t like it, you don’t like democracy ... end of!"

Unfortunately for you this wrong on so many levels. It demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about how U.K. democracy works. And finally declarative statements are not policy or argument they are rhetoric.

This is pointed out to you and you will say remainers are patronising and don't listen. You will be insulted and flounce rather than work out why what you say is just totally factually incorrect.

I even think blue passports are a mistake, I think we should have just changed the colour years ago while still in the EU we were perfectly free to do this. Now I think they are just going to become a much hated symbol of the stripping away of the rights of our young people to live, work and study across 27 other countries + 3 more.

What I have noticed is the Leavers who are blaming the EU for the lack of a nice friendly exit deal. Apparently it's all the EU's fault for not being reasonable and bending all their rules to suit us.
You don't hear much about Project Fear now that it is becoming true.

I was just about to reply to Iamall but mousse has said exactly what I was thinking.

The comment from IAmAllAstonishment that But the EU were offered ample chance to negotiate, they basically laughed in our faces exemplifies the UK hubris that it is the EU that is supposed to change its founding principles because the UK wants to leave

To echo what was said in Astonishment's own post

"We are leaving... End of"

The EU could have just said, "OK then, bye and close the door as you leave"

Yet.....

The EU is "negotiating" as a courtesy and to reduce the cliff edge which will damage the UK more than it will damage the EU - but that is what the UK, in its democratic wisdom, chose to do.

The EU is "negotiating" because it understands (even if the UK doesn't ) that there are International treaties at risk and a hard won peace that was also voted for.

The EU is "negotiating" because it understands (even if the UK doesn't) that under international law, the UK ends up having a border with a foreign country which is part of the EU (and no, it's no longer a colony and is not just going to leave the EU to make things easier for the UK/DUP) so that means that WTO rules will come into play if there isn't a deal.

KennDodd You have clearly misunderstood my post, and assume too much.

nothing new there in the Brexit saga though

I could have bet my house this was your thread bearbehind, you just won’t let it drop.
Your life ( certainly on Mumsnet) seems to be starting goady threads about leavers.
& I’m actually surprised you’re still getting away with it.
You’ve been starting threads like this for over 2 years now, you are beyond obsessed with leave voters.
Be angry, go on marches, do whatever you want, but to still be starting threads like this 2 years on just makes you look a bit bonkers ( at best ) a lonely attention seeker ( possible, in which case I sympathise a bit ) or a complete goady fucker.
What one is it?

PMSL surfer

You vow to never post on another Brexit thread lasted what, less than a week? 😂