Has anyone noticed how often Leavers say 'I'm not going to change my mind'

[Bearbehind]

Or words to that effect.

I've literally never heard anyone on the Remain side say that. We all just say 'show me the benefits and I might change my mind'

It now seems like a point of principle among Leavers that they aren't going to change their minds, no matter what.

I’d love to be wrong regarding my expectations of leaving the EU!
Reasons I heard from friends tonkeace included
“Change is good”
“I flipped a coin”
And
“I’m sick of loads of Asians moving down our road” (when I pointed out the fact that no Asians actually lived on her road, nr even getting into the fact that Asia wasn’t in the EU, and immigration had precisely nothing to do with leaving the EU
“well there used to be hundreds of them”.

To Leave*

Not even*

‘Scuse typos

I've found just as many Remainers are absolutist about their side as Leavers. I didn't have a vote as an immigrant (non-EU) and am generally in 'the referendum was a badly thought out idea' group so maybe that affects why I see so many issues with both sides.

I'm not sure how anyone can prove any benefits or properly vote on anything when neither side really put forward plans to consider. It was just two vague campaigns full of BS, and remain was just as bad as leave in that regard with no conscious effort to discuss how they could improve the flaws the EU (which every organization has) when going forward or deal with anyone's concerns about it, just throwing out scaremongering stats which much as some of the remarks from Leave, some were shown to be untrue. It really shouldn't have been done as it was but the promise was a vote-getter and now it's a mess to sort out. Going on about what traits millions of people in the UK voted on either side may have isn't going to help.

And, while cults were used to study belief perseverance and do explain why they and other groups that use the BITE model keep people, the definition does not rely on cults and it is something all humans have.

I'm not sure how anyone can prove any benefits or properly vote on anything when neither side really put forward plans to consider

Well if we remain our plan would be to remain in the EU, so keeping the current deals. Not much more to put forward than that.

I was trying to think of an issue I've had a 180 degree shift on. I can only think of trans rights and how they DO conflict with woman's rights.

Me too kenn

There probably aren't many major things kenn but I can't imagine ever saying 'absolutely nothing you can ever say will ever change my mind'

It is frustrating though when you point out actual written law and people STILL say that's wrong and their beliefs are correct. I just don't know what you can then do. Aaron Banks said that Remains big mistake was to give people facts. Leave focused on feelings. He even went so far as to say 'we took their hand and led them down the garden path'.

Banks is right. £350m a week on the NHS, £200m a week, £100m, that is not deciding anyone's vote.

It is all speculation whether you hide your guesses behind numbers or not.

cognitionandculture.net/blog/christophe-heintzs-blog/does-prospect-theory-explain-trump-and-brexit-votes

@FuzzyShadowChatter Thank you. I appreciate your refreshingly balanced comments

Madmarchpear

I think that is part of it. It if you have got fuck all, you might as well stir stuff up and see what happens.

I find remainers are just as rigid in their thinking as leavers.

And very quick to condemn those who do not agree with them as the faulty ones. This thread being an example.

Are you, remainers, really ready to change your mind? By hearing arguments you've heard already and don't support? No - of course not. And neither are those who heard all the same stuff but formed a different opinion.

The thread title seems to suggest they are somehow wrong. But actually there's no difference between each, as far as willingness/likelihood of change is concerned.

The point is though, there's been no tangible benefits to Brexit offered so there's been nothing to change my mind.

There's plenty of solid evidence about the downsides though.

Some really interesting links here. Kenn Dodd, your post reminded me of the theory of cognitive dissonance. Yes, it was inspired by a cult, but there are lots of less dramatic examples in everyday life.

healthland.time.com/2011/05/17/apocalypse-now-why-believers-will-grow-stronger-when-the-world-doesnt-end/

I find remainers are just as rigid in their thinking as leavers

Maybe, however, I think Remainers have been more willing to believe experts, for example on the affect of immigration and the economy. Another thing I have noticed of leave voters is there has been some backtracking, before the referendum, I did hear people complain about the money we send to the EU. Now, you every Leaver you hear from says they didn't believe that for a second. Another claim is that they knew it was going to be shit (didn't say that before) but wanted out anyway. Even JRM is doing it by moving the goal posts to 50 years time, he hasn't put his money were his mouth is though.

@MoggyP , hello - I'm happy to be wrong. Really really really happy. See. I can do it . As can other people who voted Remain and have said the same on here. Nice to meet you.

I agree, I've never wanted to be wrong (and for the govenment own impact assessments to be wrong) about something so much in my life.

If Govt./TMay said they were starting with Norway model & would consult widely on a more outside EU position (or not), and take years to develop that further-away position, then most Remainers would have shrugged & got on with our lives. It was the extreme red lines "everyone knew what they were voting for" tone & spectacular naivete about how Brexit could happen, that has entrenched Remainer views that Brexit is stupid.

Everyone on all sides said a vote to leave the EU would mean leaving the single market and the custom's union.

The whole point of democracy is you go with the people. You can't overrule a democratic vote by saying people did not know what they were voting for. You have to assume everyone meant it because that is the only opportunity they have had to express it.

All this "people did not vote for job losses" is nonsense. Everyone heard remainers say it would be bad for the economy, we had an official government leaflet saying that. Voters either did not believe it or did not care, why would they have changed their mind after having hysterical remainers scream the same arguments at them for two years?

I don't expect Leavers to change their minds. I don't expect the vote to be overturned. I do expect Leave voters to own what's coming.
I already see rumblings of blaming :

• EU
• Theresa May for not using the Imperius curse
• Irish people for making a fuss over "nothing "

But never themselves.

Winebottle
Can I get this straight? You're saying that regardless of damage - which the government's own impact assessments acknowledge - we must go ahead? That there would be no point at which the government should say this is too damaging; we're going to put the brakes on it? ie. that the government, having presented their impact statements, should knowingly and wilfully damage the country regardless?

Everyone on all sides said a vote to leave the EU would mean leaving the single market and the custom's union.

But that simply isn’t true. Farage, Johnson et al frequently made reference to being like Norway or Switzerland.

All this "people did not vote for job losses" is nonsense. Everyone heard remainers say it would be bad for the economy, we had an official government leaflet saying that

Which was dismissed as Project Fear by the Leave campaign, who turned out to be more persuasive. The undeniable fact that the Remain campaign was feeble does not mean that the negative effects of Brexit are somehow not real, or that people really want to be poorer and have food and medicines shortages.

wiseup Leavers are rewriting history to fit their narrative.

That’s the only concession to the rafts of negative outcomes that have been made very clear will be the result of Brexit - it’s now all ‘we knew it would be hard’ and ‘it will be worth the pain’

Only there’s still nothing at all to indicate exactly what will be worth it.