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Brexit
Original poster

No Brexit

95 replies

Singletomingle · 05/10/2018 21:09

As it seems the tone on here is remain what does everyone think will happen should we revoke article 50. How will the EU react, what will Brexiteer MPs do and how will the 51% react.

OP posts:
Ta1kinpeace · 06/10/2018 22:02

peregrina
It's just possible that he did actually win.
I know folks in politics there
I can 110% promise you he did not
he is as loathed by the sane there as anywhere

ginghambox · 06/10/2018 22:06

In the 2010 GE, (which is the one i was thinking of), UKIP were similar to the Greens, less than 1%, the very pro EU libdems got 23%
Funny how things can change in 5 years.

jasjas1973 · 06/10/2018 22:32

Yes they went to 12.6% and in 2017 back down to 1.8%

Peregrina · 06/10/2018 22:46

he is as loathed by the sane there as anywhere

That's good to hear. When UKIP has got into power in Local Govt, they have shown themselves to be totally shambolic and clueless. Although I believe that one or two UKIP councillors did knuckle down and try to do the job they were elected for.

juneau · 07/10/2018 08:51

they don't get the Brexit they wanted

Yes, I think there is a real danger of this, mainly because the people who voted to Brexit imbued that one measly little question on the ballot paper with all their own personal ideas of what Brexit would entail, which no deal of any kind was ever going to resemble. My Brexit-voting DM has already said 'This isn't what we voted for', yet she doesn't seem to understand that all she voted for was out. There was nothing about the 'how' of getting out, or the 'what' of what comes after. The leave campaign was genius in the way it managed to speak to the dreams of every uneducated and disillusioned person up and down the land - whether they were poor and unemployed or old, wealthy and middle class and dreaming of a lost 1950s Albion.

bellinisurge · 07/10/2018 09:02

In my view, if people don't get the "Brexit they voted for" , tough shit. You don't get to pass the blame for this mess so easily.

bellinisurge · 07/10/2018 09:10

Faridge didn't win in Kent because not enough people voted for him. Any suggestion of electoral fraud is highly dangerous.

Peregrina · 07/10/2018 09:38

Any suggestion of electoral fraud is highly dangerous.

I was pretty sure that two of the Tory staff associated with the campaign were being investigated for electoral fraud.

It seems I misremembered and it was to do with expenses. I don't know what happened to the investigation.

HateIsNotGood · 07/10/2018 14:27

I have many posts over many threads stating that if Leavers knew what they were voting for they would have voted differently; then use as many of the many difficulties there are with the actual process of leaving to substantiate that the UK should remain instead.

So, the UK should remain because it's so difficult to Leave?

Maybe that is precisely why some people voted to Leave.

HateIsNotGood · 07/10/2018 14:29

read many posts

Bearbehind · 07/10/2018 14:35

So, the UK should remain because it's so difficult to Leave?

Maybe that is precisely why some people voted to Leave.

It's this kind of bizarre logic that has created the mess we were in.

Leaving the EU eventually isn't impossible (although it is never going to be beneficial).

Leaving the EU with no other plan the stamping our feet and shouting 'do you know who we are' is impossible.

Cornishclio · 07/10/2018 14:50

I am not at all sure Article 50 can be revoked but if it happened I don't think there would be a tremendous fuss. Most of the people I know who voted to leave are generally very apathetic and probably did not really think about the consequences. A lot of them are quite elderly so will have other things to think about, like health issues given the state of the NHS. Some I know regret voting leave although not all will admit it but they just cannot come up with a valid reason beyond we can now take control of our borders which incidentally we are able to do now.

1tisILeClerc · 07/10/2018 14:59

Apart from a possible issue with an Ireland/NI border and of course Gibraltar leaving could have been relatively easy IF (and that's a massive if) the purpose and 'degree' of leaving was properly defined, rather than a vague 'leave' expression, and around 5 or more years of planning and discussion with the EU as to how to actually achieve it.
As has been so widely commented upon, flouncing and stamping of feet and with no real definition of what a 'Brexit' actually is, is causing the problem.
Mankind can fly to the moon, but it takes a bit more effort than Wallace and Grommit's sterling job.

HateIsNotGood · 07/10/2018 17:30

Thankyou bear for at least seeing that there is logic involved in my question. Given the many descriptions that are given over and over and over again (deranged, stupid, fascist, ill-informed, too old to give a feck, et, etc,etc) I'll take "bizarre".

Now I await the voluminous requests for "evidence"...."links" .....; the thing is, evidence and links to what? I've asked a question and it is one that is asked in many other guises on MN.

Just because it is difficult to Leave X and X makes it difficult if you try; that is a very good reason for Leaving X.

Bearbehind · 07/10/2018 17:35

Sorry hate by 'bizarre logic' you can read, 'no logic worth considering as it makes no sense'.

Doing something just because it's difficult doesn't make it either desirable or the right thing to do.

It just makes you bloody minded to try it just for a laugh.

Agreed, something being difficult shouldn't stop you from trying if the ends justifies the means but given you can't articulate the ends, and have no idea what the means are, it's just stupidity.

nicebitofquiche · 07/10/2018 17:41

I think the tone on here is remain because those who want to remain seem to want to tell people about it at every opportunity. Leavers seem confident that we will leave so don't have to let people know their opinion.

Bearbehind · 07/10/2018 17:45

Leavers seem confident that we will leave so don't have to let people know their opinion.

😂😂😂😂😂

Ta1kinpeace · 07/10/2018 17:48

Leavers seem confident that we will leave so don't have to let people know their opinion.
But what do they want from leave?
How will they know when they get it?
What will happen if they do not get what they wanted which they have never clearly explained ?

1tisILeClerc · 07/10/2018 17:52

Being 'very difficult to do' does not make it impossible. Flying to the moon is very difficult but all the 'difficulties' are known and we know the earth is here and the moon is (???) miles away.
The political and business world has changed since the Vote in 2016, and it evolves continually.
Had Cameron waited another 6 months before calling the vote, and put more pressure on the EU from within to sort out the refugee/migration issues coming into the EU, and had not demonised immigrants into the UK then things would have looked a lot different.
Piling immigration/racism on top of the Government's lack of care for former industrialized parts of the UK but lavishing money on the darlings in 'the city' would always be divisive.
Sadly leaving is going to make it a whole lot worse.

bellinisurge · 07/10/2018 17:53

We will be leaving and I hate the idea so I talk about it on here with like minded people.
I dipped into my local FB page recently. It was full of Leave idiots without a sensible thing to say between them. The most intelligent among them, who I know personally, was wittering in about the Millennium Bug and how this was just like that.
"Leave means leave ". - say that five times to make the unicorns appear and all the people with dark skin disappear- it was as bad as that.

jasjas1973 · 07/10/2018 18:24

@HateIsNotGood

Sorry but leaving the EU is very easy, just leave after the 2 year Art50 period and thats it, we don't need to negotiate anything at all and of course as the EU is so bad, why would we even want to stay in all these wasteful and pointless agencies that are "holding us back" and preventing us from exporting?

If leaving is such a great idea, then i don't understand why No-deal is something to worry about BUT from JRM to Davis etc etc everyone wants a "Deal" why?

Have they no faith in our abilities as a Great Nation and world power?

HateIsNotGood · 07/10/2018 18:29

Well bear thank you for the dig at my being unable to articulate - which is really why you won't find a 50:50 in the depth of view points found here.

I merely asked a singular question about a specific point. Because I have no wish to post great reams of opinion, with substantive links to evidence 'opinion' does not make me inarticulate.

Maybe I'm a Troll? Go check.

bellinisurge · 07/10/2018 18:29

@jasjas1973 - every single thing we do is tied up in an international agreement. Which STOPS if we leave with no deal. Everything.
Step by step, in an increasingly difficult financial position, we have to build it back.
Do you not see what damage that will do to our country? To our daily lives?
No? Not even a bit?

HateIsNotGood · 07/10/2018 18:33

good point jaz - maybe some people aren't quite as worried as they appear. Apparently if you aren't really, really worried you're deluded, stupid, ill-informed and on; so best appear to be worried.

UnnecessaryFennel · 07/10/2018 18:35

I think jajas was being sarcastic. At least, I hope they were!