So what is it that you like about Brexit, OR, what is it you fear about Brexit?

[coulditbeforever]

Just that really, whait is it you like orfear about Brexit?

YeOldeTrout the various trading arrangements / deals / agreements between Africa and the EU is an interesting and complicated area. On the face of it, it looks like fair enough perhaps but there is an undercurrent when you look a bit closer that is protectionist and only of any real benefit to the EU - does it really benefit Africa, and is it really fair trade? ...so the EU saying 'we will reduce tariffs for you on various things if you open up your markets to our products and we will help you with infrastructure with various 'funds' aren't we altruistic - a gift from us :)'.

But is it really helpful? Does requiring Africa to open up to subsidised markets from the EU help them - is it fair? Buy our cheap subsidised sugar - to use your example, and their are many more examples - you can then have access to our single market, but there is a cost - we will actually put your sugar farmers out of business, both in terms of domestic and international markets because you can't actually compete with our subsidised sugar - but don't worry we will give you money to build your roads. That is completely topsy turvy and only serves to keep Africa in 'internationally aided poverty'. Africa doesn't win here - they buy in cheap subsidised products instead of encouraging their own industries and markets. They absorb the cost of such a rubbish deal in order to make at least some money which is, in actuality, losing the money that is rightfully theirs. And who benefits? The EU.

The African countries that refuse to be part of these trade agreements and aid programmes - and there are a few that have/have tried although the pressure is huge - then get slapped with much higher tariffs and are restricted in terms of their access to EU markets. It is a lose lose situation for them.

When we get out of the EU, we can work towards better, fairer trade deals with countries in Africa that respect their autonomy as growing markets and economies. Or we can at least vote in a government that will. We are a big consumer of imports and we know how to export - we can work out a way of trading fairly with Africa that benefits both of us.

All of this can be read about in great detail at your leisure without me having to explain it all I'm sure.

In terms of 'what I like about Brexit' - I like the prospect of our country not being part of this. It is morally and ethically pretty gross.

Isn't China was the main outside African trading partner anyway? My friend who regularly does African charity work says there are Chinese things everywhere materials, hydropower, railways, even a military base?

The FT also says that nearly a decade ago, China surpassed the US to be Africa’s largest trading partner. Last year, its two-way trade hit $170bn — four times larger than US-Africa commerce.

The UK outside of the EU will be a tiny part of African trade, whereas we are a powerful member of the EU, able to shape policy....if we choose too....successive Governments have decided not to do so.

Is destroying sectors of our Agri going to prove a popular policy? i don't think so.

As to "we know how to export" do we? We sell more to Belgium than China, German exports 4x as much to China, whilst being in the EU.

Ethical trade and foreign policies are not a UK strong point, take a look at trade with Saudi Arabia and sales of weapons used to kill civilians in the Yemen.

My fear with brexit is that we will become even less moral as we seek to undercut competitors and seek out new markets, who ever they are with.

{The Chinese are trying to fix that.}
A very telling sentence there, not sure if you intended it to be.
If the UK had invested in Africa rather than plundering it's mineral wealth and poor practices around food production, the UK would have benefited. The Chinese, by pouring billions into many parts of the world is putting them into massive debt (to China) will have total control. Greed by Europeans in Africa and other continents by promoting sheer profit over establishing a better life experience for the 'locals' while giving 'us' cheap commodities has been detrimental to them.

UK workers can never undercut 'peasant' farmers in Africa or elsewhere.

The strangest thing though is even these who live in self built shacks with an 'adequate' supply of food but hardly much else can still be relatively happy. Radio, TV other 'trappings' would be nice but are not essential.
In many places food allergies are a 'luxury'. With the food that is available if you are allergic to it you either suffer or die.

We Europeans also built roads railways infrastructure invested heavily in Africa during our time as colonists. Which were left in various states of repair post colonialism. The Chinese are just doing the same in a different century and putting the locals in even bigger hock to them , whilst they also plunder and rape the continent and corrupt officials are given every backhander going.

Almost. Europeans directed millions of Africans to work for very little money to build infrastructure.
Indeed the Chinese are having another go, and the 'lightly pencilled in' deals that Mrs May has discussed are a tiny fraction of what the Chinese are pouring in. It is something, but it isn't the massive deal that it was heralded. That trade is worth about one two hundredth of the trade we have with the EU. So, another 200 deals like that and we will be almost back to where we were 3 years ago.

When we get out of the EU, we can work towards better, fairer trade deals with countries in Africa that respect their autonomy as growing markets and economies.

Our Government doesn't concern itself much with fairness to large swathes of its own country, so why should they suddenly start worrying about Africa?As members of the EU, if we were so minded, we could push for fairer deals for African countries.

Or we can at least vote in a government that will.
It would be nice if we did, but I doubt whether it will happen.

We Europeans also built roads railways infrastructure invested heavily in Africa during our time as colonists

I've lived there, you obviously have not, invested? don't make me laugh, it was a process of de-investment and exploitation, anything done was to make money out the people and its resources.

Chinese investment is in a totally different league, African leaders May met, made fun of her.

I don't doubt that the Chinese are colonising in their own way in Africa, Central America and where-ever else.

But back to Brexit: if it destroys Johnson, Fox, Davis, May, Gove and their political reputations, it will be some sort of bonus.

Chinese money :
unless you have actually SEEN it in Africa, Asia, the Caribbean, you cannot conceive of how different it is from colonialism

The Chinese are using infrastructure as soft power
and the West have utterly fucked up at stopping them

but they own the assets they build so are creating a liability basis like the world has never seen

so utterly shit that the UK and US have taken their eye off the ball

I have seen what the Chinese are doing in Cuba, hence the comment about 'their own way'. As you say, creating liabilities, in a much more subtle way than any Europeans ever tried, and we and the US are oblivious. The Brexiters fondly thinking that we can revitalise the Empire.

Luckily for us, my husband had a heart attack in Belgium and treatment was free because we had our EHiC cards! Superb treatment which I know we would never have had so quickly in our local hospital.
So grateful that we are still in the EU at this moment in time!

{The Brexiters fondly thinking that we can revitalise the Empire.}
Probably more like we will be 'bit part' players furthering the Chinese empire.
At least to begin with the Chinese approach to 'domination' is rather different to a 'Western' approach. Obviously an over simplification but the Chinese tend to at least part integrate into local society, while retaining a good deal of 'Chineseness'. With the Chinese providing funding for infrastructure in many countries a lot of places will 'owe' China, so it is 'financial' control rather than military or other means.
Even the USA owes vast amounts to China and would be 'stuffed' if China suddenly said they want it repaying.

I fear loss of money, rights, freedoms and I fear unrest, violence, war.

I can't think of anything to like about Brexit, except change. I like change. I don't like bad change. I really hope it isn't bad change.

Change is guaranteed!
What the change will be is uncertain but unfortunately it is unlikely to be 'good'.

I am looking forward to our independence, to be able to conduct our own affairs, and to having our own elected government answerable to us

Hell yes, I can't want to have our own elected government answerable to us. It's been so awful living in the UK with no government all these years.

Wait... what?

@Vicky1990 do you not actually realize we already have our own elected government? They're the ones who got us into this mess and have proved spectacularly inept at getting us anywhere near out of it.

I fear the troubles restarting in Ireland.

And I fear the loss of the NHS

What shocks me is the ignorance of most people to the realities of what's about to happen. I live near one of the main ports servicing transport to the Republic of Ireland. Those ports will become the UK border - I assume there will be change in infrastructure (not such a bad thing, there will be jobs!), delays and queues. When talking about this with a (well educated, remain voting) colleague, she had literally not even heard about the Irish Backstop and it hadn't occurred to her at all. We went on to talk about the predicted queuing and disruption likely to happen around Dover post-Brexit and she didn't believe me. And that's just transport disruption. What about the other repercussions.... the lack of awareness and planning is shocking.

Those ports will become the UK border sorry, I know they already are the UK border, but they'll become the border with the EU and will face heavier pressure since there will be no EU border in NI.

What I wish we were doing with the billions going into Brexit? Actually building plastics recycling plants; using the innovation you see all over the internet - bacteria that eat plastic, some ways to make money out of plastic etc. Instead, we have PobGove doing a very good impression of someone who desperately wants to know what he is meant to be doing, while spouting that he will keep "largely" to the EU rules. I somehow have little faith in him (wonder why) when opposed to Trump telling us to lower food standards...I don't doubt who will win there.

Am also very pissed off that NHS is now having to spend out hundreds of thousands to keep the EU staff it has managed to hold on to in the country.

I fear that I won't be able to stay in the EU country where I live - or at least not without paying a lot for healthcare etc and losing my rights to travel across borders without a loss of hassle. I worry that I will never be able to come back to the UK with my Italian husband as we had planned. I fear the strain of all the stress is going to have a negative effect on my family.

I fear that this nonsense that is brexit cannot be prevented and when the sh*t hits the fan and everything heads down the pan the stupid people who voted for this disaster will just keep blaming the EU.

What do I like about Brexit? its easy really, the 'humour', the whole debacle has been like a comedians wet dream, there is a lot of Brexit related funny stuff out there. All the countries in the UK have a long and brilliant tradition of satire, irony and downright silliness when it comes to knowing their place and respecting their betters. Long may that continue. I think it is appropriate to mention The Wipers Times at this point, given the fast approaching Armistice Day centenary.