Did Theresa May just say it was the EU's job to solve Brexit?

[Ginazon]

In much the same way that the Brexiters decided the Remainers, not them, should have had a plan on how to make Brexit happen?

I do, however, think it is reasonable to expect our politicians to understand such things, or at least to inform themselves before taking decisions and making statements which could have a grave impact on these areas. I think that parliament were utterly negligent in not identifying, for example, the Northern Ireland issue before the referendum, and insisting that a viable plan be worked out before it was put to a public vote, so that (1) we could be sure that it was actually possible to leave the EU without tearing ourselves apart in the process, and that we weren't actually giving people the option to vote for something that was never viable, and (2) people would have a reasonable idea of what they were voting for if they voted leave. Neither of those things happened before the referendum, but they could have redeemed themselves by refusing to consent to the triggering of Article 50 until some kind of plan had been agreed upon. That didn't happen either. I'm just so angry with them all. They have let us down so badly. I went to a pre-referendum debate where one of the speakers for the leave side was Kate Hoey. The Northern Ireland issue was raised and she got up on her high horse and said that she found it "thoroughly offensive" to suggest that voting to leave the EU could cause trouble to flare up again in Northern Ireland. She basically shut down the debate. Stupid cow is from Northern Ireland and should know this stuff better than most.

A combination of fewer lies and a bit more critical thinking would have helped enormously. Although many wouldn't care but even something simple like as we are virtually none of the lorries bringing food across the channel are customs checked. When we leave the tailbacks to get through customs will cause a continuous tailback of around 15 miles. Things like this will be a problem for years. Your fresh produce will be a week old when you get it.

I would bet all the 'Sir Humphreys' in the background know all these details, and will have briefed the MPs as well, it is their job to do 'details'.

I used to be a civil servant. There are lots of people with all the necessary knowledge who will be briefing ministers behind the scenes. The trouble is that most some ministers will tell their civil servants that they don't like the advice they've been given, and to go away and come up with alternative facts something they do like.

Labour's 6 tests:.... #2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? WTF are they smoking? Exact same benefits = Remain. Of course we must get a worse deal with EU by leaving the EU. Leave != exact same benefits. The point of being in the club is to have the advantages of membership. Arggh..... How has it come to us having such turnip-brained leaders??

It has even failed that test before it started. We have already spent oodles of cash just in the arguing stages.

Exactly.

it looks like she's going to let us go off the cliff edge with no deal and then try to pin the blame on the EU for not doing a deal with us.

Honestly TM will try to scapegoat the EU for rejecting her chequers deal but I've spent some time lurking on the Leave FB pages lately just to get a feel for how the 52% see the situation.

They honestly think TM is doing a terrible job just as much as remainers do. They honestly think she should step down and either NF or David Davis should run for PM instead. And they honestly don't care about a chequers deal or ANY kind of ties to the EU. They want OUT at all and any cost. This is what I've picked up from reading thousands of comments over the past 48 hours. The cliff edge is definitely what Leavers voted for, they happily admit it and don't believe a word that comes out of TMs mouth.

I think you are being too kind calling some of the electorate 'naive' ethelthepiratesdaughter as in my experience leave voters have not changed their minds despite 18 months of phoney war reality as borne out by Benjaminbuttonschilds experience of leave blogs. Then as now, there were stories of the impact of the cliff edge no deal brexit which they continue to pursue because they think they won't be the ones thrown off the cliff because their birthplace entitles them to having 1st class citizen status above 2nd class immigrants. Whilst I wouldn't expect them all to understand the difference between centralised monetary policy and the UK rebate I fully expect them to understand food & medicine shortages, major employers pulling out of the country, job losses, crops not being picked and national security issues like NI terrorism and religious sectarianism. If they can understand a dodgy Nigel Farage poster with a line of Syrian refugees or the lies about immigrants taking our jobs, our beds in the hospitals and using our welfare system they should be able to believe the utter sh!storm they are inleashing. I know none of them admit to it in polite company but I see a very dark side driving their motivation for voting leave.

They honestly think she should step down and either NF or David Davis should run for PM instead. Nigel Farage? I guess they don't understand that you actually have to be elected as an MP and also be the leader of the party that gets the most seats in order to be MP, then? Of course they don't.

The cliff edge is definitely what Leavers voted for, they happily admit it and don't believe a word that comes out of TMs mouth. Unless more than 50% voted for the cliff edge and even if they did to be honest then I don't give a flying fuck what those people think. Happy to lead them to the nearest cliff if they'd like to jump off it themselves. No need to drag everyone else with them.

Daddy - Whilst I wouldn't expect them all to understand the difference between centralised monetary policy and the UK rebate I fully expect them to understand food & medicine shortages, major employers pulling out of the country

Some remainers have commented (not me, I want to spare myself the aggro) that food and medicine shortages will be likely, but the Leavers collectively just laugh/brush it off as rubbish as I have seen multiple times. Even when remainers have posted various links to say this. They accuse it of being Project Fear and lefty tripe.

One lady went as far as to say "Who cares, it's only EU companies that will be moving back to Europe." And in her mindset it was clear to her that this meant more British Jobs for British People.

I'm an ardent remainer but I do try to see the other side of the argument. I used to engage in the argument around the time of the referendum. Now I feel there's no point engaging as they know what they voted for (a cliff edge, Leave at all costs) and they genuinely believe they are right.

It's very hard to prove to people - especially in collective masses - that they may be wrong as you are asking them to question their core beliefs. Once people fixate on an ideology ime they very rarely change their view.

Daddybegood If only there were some way to insulate remain voters against the effects of Brexit then I'd say let them have it and see how they like it when it happens. Unfortunately everyone's in the shit together.

Ethel - I know NF can't become PM but this genuinely what the collective hive mind are saying. They think that JRM, NF, David Davis and Kate Hoey should form their own political party as only they are equipped to take us out of the EU wholesale. They also lump Tommy Robinson in there. I've read the same comments from multiple people so many times over.

Sometimes I think it's good for me to get out of my bubble, confirmation bias is not a good thing. But when i do.... oh boy, it's scary.

Other memorable quotes include "how can remoaners say we don't know what we voted for? If we didn't how the f**k did they?"

Oh and not forgetting one of them saying "Do not shop at Aldi or Lidl - they are German".

Well, thanks for that insight 🤦🏻‍♀️

how can remoaners say we don't know what we voted for? If we didn't how the fk did they? Because we voted for the status quo and they voted for what was in the mystery box? Christ, some people are thick.

OP you asked how bad it would be and for No scaremongering.

This video gives a good indication 😂😂

Oops link

Wrong thread

Agreed benjamin and ethel. I took time during the referendum to understand the leave arguments but then, as now, couldn't find a single positive from a leave decision. I do however hold some hope that those leavers who thought we could get a deal like Norway or Switzerland will also not want to endure food and medicine shortages and would switch to remain if there were a peoples vote....which I think is becoming inevitable. I have however lost faith in many people who seem to disregard the chaos leaving could cause to those reliant on meds to survive or the upheaval to uk/EU citizens living in the EU/UK. They have shown no empathy or emotional intelligence but will be screaming how unfair the world is towards them when it blows up in their own faces. They will likely just blame remoaners/immigrants/the EU/Jeremy Corbyn but the fault is entirely their own

Do you really think there will be a people's vote though?

They already do scream how unfair the world is and why do we have unelected MEPs etc. A lot of what they have anger about is domestic policy. Even things such as pension age increments are the EUs fault.

Pretty much everything is the fault of the EU in their eyes. I'm a way I do feel some empathy for them as I feel they've been let down so badly by current and previous governments that's they feel they have no one left to blame and nowhere else to turn to make their point. They seem to hold government to account (we already do this) and wish to be run solely by U.K. parliament to ensure that government can be accountable. I understand the logic is fuzzy but a small part of me does actually empathise with them.

I still don't see why everyone has to suffer though.

Apologies for the typos.

If there was a people's vote I don't see what good could come of that either. Rock and a hard place springs to mind