Did Theresa May just say it was the EU's job to solve Brexit?

[Ginazon]

In much the same way that the Brexiters decided the Remainers, not them, should have had a plan on how to make Brexit happen?

"unelected MEPs"?

Just what I've read Ethel, I know this isn't true at all. I don't bother to engage with them tho as you just get called a remoaner, a troll, a snowflake, a prat, a tw*t and all the other insults they can hurl.

I just read what they say to try and get their viewpoint. The facts aren't there but the feeling certainly is and I do have some empathy for them feeling like they had no other choice than to vote Leave. I'm not trying to sound patronising towards them but I can understand how they feel, that this is a different world to the one they would have lived through in previous decades. It's not for me to minimise their experiences. I do think they've made an utterly stupid choice based on silly reasons (i.e. not fact) but that doesn't mean I can't understand the emotion behind it.

There seems to be significant momentum behind a peoples vote. Labour are sandbagging this momentum to keep some lexiteers on side and weaponising brexit to let the Tories implode or split, then they announce their support for it (saying this is a tory hardship brexit that will break working class communities) and will be backed by Soubry, Clarke etc as the commons will only allow no deal if the people vote for it. It has to be binary i.e. remain vs no deal as all other choices are unacceptable to EU so no point being on the ballot

Labour need to stop hedging their bets and get on with it, if that's what they're planning on doing. Otherwise there will be no time to change anything. And if they support having a referendum which does not have the option to remain, or at the very least, an EEA type solution, then really what is the point of Labour?

Daddy - John McDonell and Len McCluskey have said there wouldn't be a remain option on Peoples Vote.

Unless they've changed stance?

I can't see the benefit of a people's vote even if it had Remain as an option.

Re NI - shouldn’t this possibility have been discussed at the time of the Good Friday Agreement? I know they were desperate to get a deal at the time, and with good reason, , but surely some contingency measures could have been agreed in the event of Ireland or the uk leaving the eu.

It's a fair point, but it's more pertinent to ask why Northern Ireland wasn't considered at all in the referendum debate, given that the Good Friday Agreement predated the EU referendum by nearly 20 years.

Benjamin...I know they said there would be no remain option but I think it was strategically trying to keep lexiteers on side for now. But with 86% support of labour members and rising, they can't really offer a peoples vote between a shit sandwich and utter snowstorm.....but they think they have to let the Tories blow up first

Like you said Twooter, the GFA needed to be sorted as soon as possible. Also maybe no one could see a referendum on leaving the EU coming, although a referendum wasn't actually required to trigger A50.

Daddy - I can't see the point in John McDonnell saying Remain wouldn't be an option.

And if it was and remain won the second ref, and we decided to remain after all, the nation won't suddenly become less polarised. The Tory party and Labour Party would likely be decimated and the many disgruntled Leavers who didn't get to leave would ultimately defer to UKIP. We would likely have a UKIP PM as well as a very VERY pissed off 27-other-member-states. That's also what I'd class as an utter shitstorm

Even if remainers won the second time around, it doesn't smash the Brexiteer concept. Ideology is what people cling to and this will only make them angrier and more vocal and extreme.

Benjaminbuttonschild I'm not sure how you think UKIP would win a general election if remain had just won a second referendum. The maths doesn't quite work out.

I agree Benjamin, there is no easy way out of this and both choices end up in social disturbance and disobedience ....unless it's like Irelands 2nd vote to accept Lisbon and now they have 90% EU support....but they don't have rabble rousers like Farage and Boris

The thing is, it's not a binary choice between stopping Brexit and having leave voters kick off, or going through with Brexit and them being happy as larry. I think that if we go through with Brexit and it's as much of a disaster as it looks like it's going to be, a lot of the same people will end up kicking off anyway. It'll take a bit longer but eventually they're going to want to know why they're even poorer than they were before rather than having a bigger slice of the cake like the Brexiters promised them.

It's a possibility Ethel. If remain won a second ref there would be so so many disgruntled and angered Leave voters. Even if UKIP didn't win a GE right away they will and already have gained masses of support. People who are pissed off with Tory party will shift further to the right. A third of labour voters voted to Leave because they feel marginalised in society. So they would no longer vote labour especially with JC at the helm. UKIP will gain momentum and it could be a huge blow for the traditional two horse race that is Tory or Labour government

And yes, if Brexit went through Leavers would end up unhappy and angry when they realise they are poorer - they just haven't twigged that but yet. There's going to be civil unrest no matter what the outcome.

I'm not sure how you think UKIP would win a general election if remain had just won a second referendum. The maths doesn't quite work out. I don't know about that, mathematically they wouldn't need anything like 50% of the vote to win an election, unless they were up against a single 'Remain' candidate in every seat.

UKIP has never won a seat in a GE and you're talking about them winning a majority?

That is deranged, and hilarious.

A while back I would have said Trump being the US president was deranged and hilarious.

I would also have never have contemplated we may be parting ways with our trading bloc.

And here we are....

All its takes is FPTP

UKIP has never won a seat in a GE and you're talking about them winning a majority?

Remind me when was the last time that 50% of voters decided to vote for some crazy idea, were then sidelined and immediately had the chance to vote 'against' the people who'd sidelined them?

I think a cliff edge crash out brexit is almost inevitable- it's what the EU want and they won't offer any deal pour encourages les autres. We will crash out and whilst there could be better outcomes in terms of initial disruption, it won't be the end of the world. We will come through the other side of the adjustment in a few years, probably stronger and more successful.

I am still waiting for them to cancel the whole shit show.

The EU is perfectly prepared to have a deal, it just cannot be as good as we ve got now, which is what May wants.
Personally i'd like a bit more than "it wont be the end of the world" not exactly confidence inspiring.

Much like the other poster who said similar, its really nice of you to bring economic hardship on everyone else....in return for "in a few years, probably stronger and more successful" with no evidence for this.

I wonder if you'll still think the same if you lose your job, go into debt, house repossessed?
For most people that would take only a few months.

5year plan
The EU are well prepared to accept 'no deal' and there is a very good chance they will be ready in March. They have accepted the UK is going and taken measures. They have spent the money to upgrade facilities so are probably at the point where it will annoy them if the UK were to say it wants to remain. They have prepared for the UK to be a 'third country'.
Although German car manufacturing in the UK may be seen as a 'big deal', it is a very minor activity compared to the rest of Germany's business, so if they think that production in the UK will not be profitable, they will simply shut the doors and walk away and sort out redundancy money after. OUTSIDE the EU of course, which the UK would be, there is probably no requirement to pay redundancy at all.