Not the Brexit Arms again

[Bearbehind]

I'm guessing surfer won't start another thread as the questions were getting a bit difficult on the last one. 😂

Thought this was worthy of discussion though

So it turns out those pesky EU immigrants actually contribute more than the average UK citizen.

Who knew 🤔

Be careful 2BoysandaCairn calls to 'get behind' the leader while looking at evil foreigners is part of the dictator playbook.

We are under attack from evil forces so we must stand together oh look foreigners are tying to change our country. People within our country want us to give up our power to evil outsiders we must stand together to make a better future.

You may make this point in good faith but consider the history of the twentieth century you hear this in the speeches of all the facist dictators. Putin uses this argument and very worryingly so does Trump.

It sounds plausible but is deeply dangerous.

Why is it ‘deeply dangerous’ to control EU immigration? ( note the word ‘control’ not ban )

Do you realise how ridiculous you lot sound?

@surferjet - I personally think there is a conversation developing in the EU about managing immigration from outside the EU. Shame we won't be part of the policy making.
But hey, blue passports, guys.

We should have worked with the likes of Dr Richard North, to gain sensible common ground, agreed to leave but under EFTA rules for 5 to 10 years

May ruled out anything remotely sensible with the red lines outlined in her Tory conference speech in 2016 and then reinforced in the Lancaster House and Mansion House speeches.

And she’s stuck to those, egged on by the right wing press whipping up the Leave means Leave sentiment, to keep the Tory party together, and that’s what has completely screwed us.

That and Labour’s inability to present any kind of opposition.

'That and Labour’s inability to present any kind of opposition.'

It's just ludicrous, isn't it? Open goal after open goal and they have NOTHING of any interest to say. Corbyn is such an utter fucking disaster

Is Labour pinning it’s hopes on a GE before March? ie staying silent now to let the Tories make such an utter shit show that they will never be re-elected?

Brexit is a cross party issue.

Bueto huge amount of labour voted leave

Labour voters (65% I believe) voted remain.

Corbyn wants this disaster. He thinks Labour can be the last party standing. He doesn't give a shit about how many people suffer because of it. Classic extremist party tactics.
We need Yvette Cooper or similar to lead a decent party again to people who suck up to anti-semites , paramilitaries and misogynists.

Bueto huge amount of labour voted leave

I don’t think Labour are interested in stopping Brexit, but letting the Tories rip themselves apart (shafting the country in the process) is in their interest. Starmer is proposing staying in the customs union (which would ease the pressure on the border in Ireland) but it’s really not being pushed as an opposition to the Tory’s unworkable plans.

Party before country on all sides.

I've read varying fig around 45% maybe more labour voters voted leave.
Under the actual Labour umbrella 35 % then more from those who switched to ukip and conservatives to get the vote through.

The problems with Labour in this scenario is the leaders are for brexit, all well and good, but there are also elements who are pro remain, not problem there either on the surface.

People like Thornbury and chukka are the ones with the attitudes that will cause more issues.

65% of Labour voters voted to remain. In fact people tend not to realise that the share of Labour voters who were remainers was pretty similar to the Lib Dems (68%).

The issue for Labour where that remain vote is located - a large number of Labour remain voters are in extremely safe urban constituencies in big cities (eg my ex constituency in London which has a large Labour majority and had a remain share of about 75%). So the Labour leadership can ignore those voters because in a GE the seat is safe.

There's also some evidence that Labour voters are more likely to have changed their minds (ie from leave to remain) than Tory voters.

moousemoose
I said we as a country have to unite, because the future is too important to mess about, I have no problem with immigration I actually like to lose the stupid

Unite around what 2boys?

That's just a meaningless comment.

There's not even a credible proposal on the table.

Actually for all who want a second vote, what are you going to sell to the rest of the country, to make us vote to stay with the EU?
Don't say because this attempt is shit, I mean positive reasons to stay/rejoin.
Because people don't tend to like to be treated as they are foolish, you need to explain what's in it for them.
The bulk of the leaver's, we know voted because they believed the EU made their lives' worse. Or didn't want to be part of the federal EU.
Nothing I seen as changed these voters minds, so what can sell to them.
You have to make the EU relevant, to many in the north, it isn't.

I don't want a second vote.

I just want a decision to be made that isn't going to screw this country up.

Given there are no tangible benefits of leaving, only pain, what more explanation do you want.

Your posting style is very familiar 2boys so I guess we both know where this is going.

May knows she has two camps that she can blame when it all goes tits up and she wanders off humming a tune , the People who voted for leave and the EU for not rolling over and giving those who voted leave what they thought they deserved. It won't be her fault.

I was thinking of organising a brexit arms meet up around December time if anyone’s interested? ( London )

With the very easy to spout 'Project Fear' slogan it is certainly very difficult to 'sell' remaining, which is a massive problem.
Many have been happy to 'blame' the EU over the years mainly because it is easier than fixing the real problems (housing, railways, schools etc) and not many 'persons on the street' can be bothered to find out whether the lies told were actually true or not. The EU parliament would always have to be a big affair as it is doing part of 27/8 countries work in terms of legislation. So you have parliament itself and thousands of interpreters.
Often places that have received money from the EU regeneration or development funds have a little blue plaque, which is a bit understated.
Another big problem is that far too many don't believe the fact that the government is happy to rip the country off just to stay in power and if the ERG get their way, make a LOT of money personally.
We have got used to being 'boiled frogs'. We have stopped expecting the Government to roll it's sleeves up and promote serious manufacturing jobs in many of the old industrial towns and cities. A coal mine employing thousands is not as 'sexy' as a shiny tower block in London with bankers in it.

Personally I do blame our government and I blame the eu and I blame the way our governments have worked within the eu.

A really rubbish school is not going to get better when 70 kids suddenly turn up with no English. Who does that benefit?
This is example of bad situation being made worse and it happened across many schools in areas where immigration was highest.
It's one thing to say, right, we are going to need more teachers, la because we are going to get this influx, more money...
It's another to callously chance something without thinking it through and preparing for it.

Le clerk... There is a big misunderstanding on here about what people at the bottom of the pile want and need.

I remember just after the result a group of leavers were asked about a theatre or some eu regenerated building near them.
They snorted with derision. Yes it's nice but we can't afford to step foot in it.

And why do we need our money given back to us to tell us what to spend it on. How bizzare.

As for our dc, surely giving them the power of political freedom is the most important thing we can give them? A meaningful vote.

@surferjet - I would caution you to be very careful organising a meeting up from here. There are some feckin' nasty creeps in the world and you are best not giving them a chance. Stick to organised meetings for whichever side you are in tune with.

bellinisurge
Yes you’re right. Bad idea really.
Thank you.