Not the Brexit Arms again

[Bearbehind]

I'm guessing surfer won't start another thread as the questions were getting a bit difficult on the last one. 😂

Thought this was worthy of discussion though

So it turns out those pesky EU immigrants actually contribute more than the average UK citizen.

Who knew 🤔

frumpety
My point is; Mumsnet is clearly not the ‘go to’ place if people want to discuss brexit.
This board is not popular at all in terms of ‘clicks’ - that’s not to say discussing it on here is pointless ( although it is ) because if you want to pass the time of day talking about brexit then fine. But you’re basically just talking among yourselves.
Brexit is not going to be stopped,

surfer
Quick question, how do you know the number of clicks on these pages? The thing is it is slightly hidden (more than the aibu threads for example) but unless MNHQ shares the engagement stats with you, you can't state this as a fact.

Quietrebel

HQ have shared the stats. They posted the top 10 most visited boards and Brexit isn’t there.

If you want to discuss Brexit you can go where you like @surferjet . I'd like to think concerns about trans activism are discussed more widely than on MN.
Just because it isn't getting a lot of clicks on MN doesn't mean it isn't important. And, understandably, people are fed up of this shit and will deal with the practicalities of Brexshit when they are faced with it. Including looking for tips from other parents.
BeLeavers tend not to bother with these threads because there are too many facts and not enough unicorns.

There’s way more remainers on MN but they’re not visiting these boards either.
Maybe they’re sick of talking the same old bollocks over & over.

Have to agree "Bell" time an time again, if an awkward question is asked, Brexitiers, like referendum promises, disappear .

I guess Leaving is the goal and nothing else.

That's fine, @surferjet . There's lots of same old bollocks all over MN. Doesn't mean it's not important bollocks. Also, if you are surrounded by BeLeavers in RL, it's good to have a safe space for letting off steam or asking questions.

I notice that surferjet was asked a specific question, so has come back with replies about why the Brexit threads aren't popular.

I tried to think of specific examples. One I could think of right now, which affects friends, but not me personally, is the BMW maintenance shut down being brought forward - most people are quite happy to have to take holiday in July, April has thrown a spanner into people's plans. There was no consultation, apparently, just an announcement from the management.

DS has lost both a Spanish and a Portuguese colleague from work. He himself is investigating whether he can get an Irish passport which will help him get work in EU bodies. This isn't Tarquin doing a 'gap yah' - this is someone who thinks international experience will enhance his CV and help him support his family.

Tarquin will be OK, daddy will be rich enough to stump up for a Maltese passport for him.

Thanks for your reply surfer. It's interesting but I'm not sure it gives the full picture.
I was a lurker on MN long before I accidentally stumbled on these boards. Exposure (lack of) has a lot to do with it. There is also the very real brexit fatigue effect which I can observe irl but it doesn't necessarily mean people are happy with it at all or happy about the manner in which it's happening. I personally don't want to insist on dragging friends and colleagues into a conversation they don't want to have so I do it here with likeminded posters (and by that I mean anyone interested in the subject, leave or remain)

@Peregrina - if your DS has an Irish born grandparent he should be able to get a passport but must first get citizenship. Called getting on the Foreign Births Register.
Once he has done that he can apply for a passport as a citizen.
A few documents needed to get there eg birth certificate of the Irish grandparent and other proof of their Id. I found the Irish records office to be prompt and helpful. I hope they are making a stash of cash from nervous Brit born Irish people like me.

so no one had an ‘international experience’ before we joined the EU?
No one worked abroad before FOM?
There’s no Americans, Canadians, Africans working in Europe. ?

Honestly - the shite that gets posted on this board is unbelievable - no wonder no one reads it.

@Quietrebel - I agree. My dh is frankly freaking out as is his family and I do my best to calm him down and only talk about it if he wants to. Even then I tread carefully.
I'm a prepper for lots of reasons but including telling him "We've got this". We are all entitled to Irish passports (although dd needs to get on Foreign Births Register first), because he and I have an Irish born parent. We are actually going on holiday to Europe in May - partly to make him feel less nervous and to show a bit of faith.
MN helps me let off steam and debate things I can't talk about in RL.
I have a good game face.

My DS hasn't got an Irish born grandparent. He thinks he might be able to do it via his wife and his soon to be registered as Irish son. They've just got the grandparent's birth certificate for the son.

DH's now late Irish granny was born in the UK, at the time when the whole of Ireland was part of the UK. So I doubt whether she registered as Irish, even after 1922.

Not saying no international travel - my parents did loads pre EU. My dad's job took him all over the world.
Just saying it's going to be more expensive and difficult as paths are "rebooted".
Which makes it prohibitive for a lot of people who used to have easier routes to living and working abroad when we were EU members. Don't be so childish.

If your DH's granny was born in Ireland, she will have a birth certificate for where she was born and a death certificate for wherever she died.
It is irrelevant if it was pre-partition.
It will be harder for your son. My siblings' spouses cannot get citizenship through marriage to my siblings. They would need residency etc. My dh and I are Irish citizens through separate means because we separately have an Irish born parent.

Oh people had international experiences before, but it was made easier. DD went to the NL, registered for the equivalent of Nat Ins and got a job.
She's now back, but that's a different story. A work colleague applied for and got a job in Australia, he went 11 months later, when the paperwork had been finalised. His firm paid the visa fees. That's the sort of difference we are talking about.

But once again surferjet - how will Brexit not happening affect you personally? Your DS would be able (like my DD was able) to up sticks and try his luck in Germany if he wished. That is the sort of example we are looking for.

If your DH's granny was born in Ireland
Nope, born in the UK - still his Irish granny though! I hadn't realised this until Brexit came up. DH isn't bothered. I would dearly love another passport, but can't find any connections, and am nowhere near wealthy enough to purchase a Maltese one.

I don’t know how my life will be effected as we haven’t left yet.
And if ds does want to travel ( which he does ) then he’ll just have to apply for a visa, which will mean a bit more form filling yes, but no big deal.

He wants to travel to India / China / America /. anyway as he wants a real international experience. Hopping on the Eurostar to Paris isn’t his idea of travel tbh.

It's easy peasy to apply for and get a visa, is it? My well educated colleague in a specialised scientific field took 11 months. Doctors wishing to come to the UK have had their visa applications turned down because the UK has filled the quota for that speciality. Even though they have a post lined up and the hospital is desperate for their skills. Those are the realities surferjet. Which I think you know, I don't think you are stupid.

@surferjet - it's wonderful that your son wants to travel widely and I'm sure that formfilling will just be a small admin problem that can easily be overcome.
An anecdote: my sibling and their spouse have gone to work in a S American country. Sibling's work visa costs a couple of hundred quid because they, like me , have Irish citizenship. Sibling's spouse doing the exact same job has to pay over a thousand quid for their work visa. Because sibling's spouse (although UK citizen too) will not be an EU citizen after March 2019. South American country and EU have a bilateral arrangement which the South American country does not have with a UK outside the EU.
Again, not impossible to sort and only paperwork but if they were kids and not experienced world travellers in their 60s, it would be that bit more difficult and possibly prohibitive.
I'm old, I've lived and worked and travelled all over the world. And dealt with all kinds of admin. All of a sudden it's harder again, like in my day, and not easier.

@surferjet

Where does your son want to go? Just for a holiday i assume?

@surferjet - if your son goes travelling and gets into difficulties, he can only rely on UK consular help. If the UK were still in the EU , he could, at a push, rely on any EU consul to help him.
I've actually been in this situation and got help from the Italians by virtue of being an EU citizen with my UK passport. They triaged it and then liaised with the UK.
But, hey, let's hope your adventurous son never needs help abroad.

{so no one had an ‘international experience’ before we joined the EU?
No one worked abroad before FOM?
There’s no Americans, Canadians, Africans working in Europe. ?}
The point of FoM is that it is almost as easy as getting a train to Manchester, as getting a different train that can take you anywhere in Europe, simply by stuffing your passport in your back pocket and taking extra sandwiches.
I hop from country to country for work. This is now being screwed up by people who can't even say exactly why they want to leave the EU. Even those that can present a coherent reason are usually incorrect in that what they were railing against was nothing to do with the EU, and as a result will make matters worse not better.

On a positive note, Easyjet have released their flights for Mallorca, April onwards and prices for next May are similar to this years plus they've put on a much cheaper route late at night.

TBF if the various areas that'll be affected if car plants close suffer, i don't care, so long as i can get my hols abroad....selfish perhaps but no more than surfer et el who don't give a shit about any economic down turn.

Very sorrry travelling around Europe will be slightly more difficult for you - maybe some people are more worried about getting a job? but now we’re not going to be flooded with unskilled workers & people we just don’t need, things will be easier.
That’s a good reason for leaving the EU.
Anyway. we’re just going around in circles again.
Politics is all about winners & losers unfortunately.