Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
woman11017 · 16/09/2018 22:06

@StuMcDaddy
No confirmation on why they were hospitalised yet, and no official line either way on whether it could be linked to nerve agent investigation. Decontamination teams have been seen around Prezzo and reports are people who were in there at the time are being taken for blood tests

frankiestein401 · 16/09/2018 22:13

@dgrosetti - chortle - via an american utuber my daughter has determined that some of her dolls suffer from 'bobble head' - i was sort of bemused

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 22:18

Who is Richard Madden?

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ElenaGreco123 · 16/09/2018 22:22

woman you are missing out.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:22

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 22:25

Reporting from Mansfield in Nottinghamshire, men on the street saying they still supported Leave to get rid of immigrants and re-open the pits and industry
Notts scabs have a lot to answer for. Still.
In NUM elections in summer 1984, members in Nottinghamshire voted out most of the leaders who had supported the strike, so that 27 of 31 newly elected were opposed to the strike.The Nottinghamshire NUM then opposed the strike openly and stopped payments to local strikers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners%27_strike_(1984%E2%80%9385)

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 22:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Somerville · 16/09/2018 22:27

You lot are so well behaved. The answer to “who is Richard Madden* should never be a photo of his face. Grin

Anyway, I was coming to have a moan about BJ in the Telegraph saying the “Irish border problem” is just a gnat or some such headline grabbing, pointless metaphor.

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 22:27

Lennie's my one and only. Mr Madden is all yours Mrs8 and Elena GrinEnjoy. Smile

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2018 22:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

frankiestein401 · 16/09/2018 22:32

i heard the Mansfield interview - very odd, the bod suggesting the mines would reopen couldn't have been a miner - they know how seams collapse/flood rendering the mine unsafe - therefore who on earth would make that comment, who would see mining as desirable? - also what news channel are they seeing that leads them to believe brexit will be good for manufacturing.?

(as an aside there is a lot of good quality coal available - even high enough for open cast - but the areas concerned have a raft of wealthy (tory?) landowners, the band between vale of clwyd and richmond for instance. obviously burning coal isnt the future anyway.)

QuestaVecchiaCasa · 16/09/2018 22:41

Another thing that they've forgotten that even in the "good ole days" the mines were reliant on migrant labour:
www.blackcoalminers.com/

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 22:44

Notts miners, arguably broke the strike. Once a mine's closed, it does not re open. MrsT and Mac Gregor completed Stage one of this awful project with what they did to our brave miners.

Kravitz mother Lisa Bonnet's ex. Grin From the olden days.
should never be a photo of his face. grin
Somerville, have you more on this, we need to know.

Westministenders: Conference Season
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2018 22:47

No Parliament can bind its successors,
but the EU negotiators aren't daft and will have penalty clauses / consequences built in to any agreement
... especially when govt ministers like DD and Gove keep boasting to their supporters what weasels they are Hmm

Any WA signed would obviously specify that if the UK reneges on any commitment, then it loses the agreed privileges,
including say the transition period if that is still running, or any arrangement about reduced trade barriers

Also after reneging, e.g. on NI / expat rights / exit bill, the EU would stop negotiations on any future trade deal,

If the reneging is some time in the future, after a trade deal has been signed, obviously that would have penalty clauses, including up to removing all trade privileges granted to the UK

So, the WA that was supposed to head off a mass business exodus may not be as effective, if business thinks it will all blow up at the next Tory tantrum or leadership contest

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2018 22:56

Believing that mines can so simply be reopened is another example of feelz trump facts
That mindset seems to have taken over half the country and will be hard to eradicate

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 23:02

the mines were reliant on migrant labour
My grandfather was Irish migrant miner, one generation out for a passport sadly. Does anyone remember this Yorkshire comedian, footballer and ex miner?

Westministenders: Conference Season
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2018 23:18

What puzzles me is that the Chequers deal will NOT be accepted by the EU

So Gove et al saying a future UK govt can change it is meaningless

Chequers is a dead parrot
So why is there so much turmoil in the Tory party over something that will never happen ? 

They should not be wasting the remaining few weeks on May's fantasy Brexit, but instead debating what is still possible:

Either
the UK signs the WA - including the NI backstop - with some fudged wording about a future trade deal
Or
cliff edge no deal after 29 March with no transition period

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2018 23:19

woman I remember his face & accent, but have forgotten the name

Swipe left for the next trending thread