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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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Peregrina · 16/09/2018 19:51

If/when we do crash out the people of Mansfield are going to feel very very betrayed. No doubt the EU for 'bullying' us will get some blame, but I suspect only some of the blame will stick. The Brexiteers will claim that they never promised anything, which will be partly true, because they didn't talk about revitalising industry. It was all easy trade deals.

Think of the last election - one problem the Tories were reported to have had was being repeatedly asked on the doorsteps where the money for the NHS was?

Peregrina · 16/09/2018 19:53

Well I continue to think something massive will happen that will change the game...but what, when, good or bad have no idea...

Maybe, like the Tulipmania of the Netherlands suddenly collapsed, or the South Sea Bubble burst. Or something completely unexpected comes out of the blue.

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 19:55

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Hazardswan · 16/09/2018 20:05

Another with a feeling something will happen, something will give way, what that is no clue either!

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 20:07

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HesterThrale · 16/09/2018 20:09

I tend to think something unexpected will change the course of events.
Even though the predicted path looks depressing now, the whole house of cards is built on such weak foundations with differing levels of commitment/ varying agendas from the major players, it wouldn't take much to completely destabilise it.
I think politicians will start to watch their backs too, and try to lessen their association with Brexit if it seems like a potential disaster. This would cause further shakiness. More well-known people will come out as in favour of a form of Remain, and it will become 'sexy' to support the EU.
I can see the EU having to step in with some sort of advice or extensions...
I foresee a period of chaos preceding a period of nation-building. (I know I've said this before!)

OlennasWimple · 16/09/2018 20:11

Place Mat King

Peregrina · 16/09/2018 20:13

I think most of the Government and ex-Government will clear out of politics pretty smartish. I don't see May doing a Heath and remaining on the backbenches. Johnson too only has a very small window to make his bid for PM.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2018 20:14

Well, in Germany we"ve still got 28-31C until Friday, when apparently this really long hot summer will end.
Hence, I'm expecting price rises here next year for some food

Neighbouring countries have also had scorchers
so probably EU countries will have less spare produce to export to the UK anyway

Hazardswan · 16/09/2018 20:14

Hmmm...

Y'know how the stockpiling will likely cause a recession?

If brexit was significantly delayed or cancelled really late in the day so money was spent on the stockpiles would that still be so likely?

I'm thinking remaining, recession, bad harvest, UK boohooing to EU, Scotland declaring they want a 2nd ref because we tanked the economy for no reason.

HesterThrale · 16/09/2018 20:20

I've heard from someone who works in the meteorological field, that they expect a lovely autumn till October, then a really hard winter like last year again.

missmoon · 16/09/2018 20:29

I think there is still all to play for, this thing isn't over yet by a long way. I'm feeling more optimistic now than I did over the summer, because things are finally coming to a head. Don't forget that the Irish border problem is pretty much incompatible with any form of Brexit, with the exception of the softest of soft Brexits.

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2018 20:30

One of our local farm has been saying about how good their harvest has been this year. They are effectively a small holding who do a large number of crops. The point they make is about how large scale industrial farming can't cope with unpredictable and variable weather whereas they can use it to their advantage and manage the land better in the process. Its an interesting counter to what is going on elsewhere

OP posts:
WorriedMutha · 16/09/2018 20:43

It's not all bad news. Katie Hopkins has entered into an IVA to ward off bankruptcy following her ill fated libel fight with Jack Monroe.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2018 20:43

One of our local farm has been saying about how good their harvest has been this year. They are effectively a small holding who do a large number of crops. The point they make is about how large scale industrial farming can't cope with unpredictable and variable weather whereas they can use it to their advantage and manage the land better in the process. Its an interesting counter to what is going on elsewhere

As things were before industrialisation ?

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 20:47

Not food poisoning, one presumes. Hmm
@BBCBreaking
Police have sealed off the Prezzo restaurant in High Street, Salisbury, following a 'medical incident' involving a man and a woman

Hazardswan · 16/09/2018 20:48

Farming has to shrink away from mass production to become ecologically sustainable.... slipping into my area of (mild to moderate) expertise now Wink

woman11017 · 16/09/2018 20:52

Police in hazmat suits seal off Prezzo restaurant in Salisbury 'after couple fall ill while eating there' with 'apprehensive' fellow diners kept inside in wake of novichok poison attack

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6173939/Restaurant-Salisbury-sealed-man-woman-fall-ill.html

1tisILeClerc · 16/09/2018 21:19

Govey baby is making matters worse. By suggesting that any future government line up may change whatever May (or whoever) sign up the WA will infuriate business leaders who must be climbing the walls with the mega pratting about that is going on. No rational company can possibly have any faith in over 2 years worth of total stupidity.

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 21:28

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mathanxiety · 16/09/2018 21:43

Well I'll just have to catch up with the previous thread later...

1tisILeClerc · 16/09/2018 21:45

We don't need to know your 'racey' details Mrsr8, steady on!
Gove's comment is wrong on 2 levels at least. First although many would realise that future Government can alter details it is stupid to point it out as it almost suggests that they WILL change. It immediately signals to the EU that the pratting about is no way over and therefore can't be trusted.
Secondly, if the Gov can change the rules for that, why is the UK being held to ransom by 'Leavers' who say they won?

Mrsr8 · 16/09/2018 21:48

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mathanxiety · 16/09/2018 21:48

BigChoc
Well, in Germany we"ve still got 28-31C until Friday, when apparently this really long hot summer will end.
Hence, I'm expecting price rises here next year for some food

In the same boat in midwest US, BigChoc. Temp today where I am is 30C and next week will be hotter. They are predicting a hot/dry autumn, lower than average precip over the winter thanks to El Nino, and resultant drought in the breadbasket in the spring unless the snowfall in the mountains is spectacularly high.

There won't be any spare soybeans for Trump to force on the European market.

Peregrina · 16/09/2018 21:50

I imagine that Gove is trying to make sure that he is backing the winning side.