Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
frumpety · 21/09/2018 10:04

What is your thread Hurricanefloss ?

prettybird · 21/09/2018 10:04

I also can't get the image of Montgomery Burns from the Simpsons out my head every time I see May Grin

Image kindly Hmm implanted by dh who noted the similarity Confused

Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 10:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 21/09/2018 10:11

I don't know what to think. We all knew that the EU weren't going to accept this deal, because they had told us that.

In English too. Which makes you wonder, exactly how "British" these Brexiteers really are ? (Pretty certain there's an inverse relation to literacy and nationalism ....)

DGRossetti · 21/09/2018 10:16

Just nosed through my French news feed, and while there is a fascinating article on charging my phone with a lemon, the only news about brexit is an article discussing a second referendum.

www.msn.com/fr-fr/actualite/monde/brexit-vers-un-nouveau-r%C3%A9f%C3%A9rendum/ar-AAAoVov?li=BBoJvSH

Incidentally, if the article about a lemon was deliberately placed next to an article about Brexit, then there's someone somewhere who's hand needs shaking, and who deserves a beer/wine/coffee on me. I salute you Grin

HesterThrale · 21/09/2018 10:17

Yes, didn't we all know back in July that Chequers was a dead duck? It seems they've just wasted two precious months waiting to be told so in the most humiliating way.

woman11017 · 21/09/2018 10:21

@rafaelbehr
Replying to @GuitarMoog
Someone (outside Westminster/Brussels obsessive channels) said to me yesterday that 'no deal' starting to feel like idea of Trump as president for most of 2016 - the thing that people said would not happen because it was obviously such a terrible, terrible idea.

DGRossetti · 21/09/2018 10:23

Did anyone ever see a low budget sci-fi film from the late 90s called "Retroactive".

The plot point was a time travel story where the protagonist kept going back in time to avert a spree killing in a highway gas station. But every time, despite their actions changing and the narrative changing, the story always ended in the killings.

It's starting to look a little like that for May. Every single time she tries something to keep the Tories together, the end point still looks the same.

A visitor from another planet would look at the situation and suggest the most logical action is to split the tory party into Leave-Tories, and remain-tories. Because the truth is that for some years now, one half of the Tory (and Labour) party has been effectively flying under false colours.

I wonder if the recent silence from Camp Boris is actually a few men (because we know it'll be men. It's always men Angry) wondering which side would be best placed to win ?

Mightybanhammer · 21/09/2018 10:26

Part of me feels relieved that the boil has been lanced now rather than in another month. We all knew Chequers was a non-starter. Except our PM it seems. Hmm

As has been said May must really have hacked off the 'colleagues'. Maybe now, more of those with heads in sand, those bored with Brexit or who think things will continue pretty much as before, will sit up and take notice before it really is too late?

Did anyone hear Today? IDS inevitably trying to blame advisers for the mess. ( Sir Ivan Rogers found out what happens when May is presented with unpalatable truths. She only hears what she wants to hear.)

And even more disgustingly, no one from the shadow cabinet was available to respond. DidntMcDonnell say on that appalling web chat here that they preferred live media so comments could not be taken out of context?

( OT but I found him deeply and insultingly patronising, disingenuous and slippery - could not understand the fawning welcome he received from some. His favourite biscuits are broken rich tea? His most admired historical figure is his mother? His bus was late? HmmHmmHmmFar too try-too-hard. And he ducked the very good Brexit questions - kudos esp to Mrs R8)

So the talks have effectively failed on an issue constituting the most serious crisis the nation has faced since 1939. And Labour didn't put anyone up to speak on one of the key daily political slots?

I live in a Tory/ Labour marginal ( under 1000). How can I possibly vote Labour again? Like others have explained, I am also politically homeless, and it is scary, worrying and depressing.

Generally lurk but thanks to all the stalwarts keeping this thread going. It is a rare oasis of reason and information.

DGRossetti · 21/09/2018 10:37

Looking forward, history shows us Grin that the Tory party really is the terminator of politics - not only surviving but thriving after the whig split of the Glorious revolution.

Even now, a rump Tory part of remainers might be a remote possibility ? With the added fizz that it would force Labour into a corner, as remain-Labour voters have a place for their cross.

If politics were marketing, then someone, somewhere wouldn't be able to resist a potential market of 50% of the electorate. It's too big a prize.

Maybe the "being bold" of Brexit isn't actual the Brexit bit, but the clear articulation of a remain policy ?

(Ed. - Is that enough for a Friday ?) Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 10:43

mother Is leaving Belgium your choice ?

Even if there is no deal, I expect EU countries to let Uk citizens who are resident and self-sipporting on Brexit Day to stay.
Also, if one of you is in work, your employer can pretty essily obtain a 5-year work visa, just like new arrivals from I dia etc which will give you a residence permit

Of course, if you want, because of family reasons , to leave before Brexit to stay a couple of years in the UK, you may not be able to return.

colouringinpro · 21/09/2018 10:43

Aaaaargh Jeremy Vine panellists all sympathetic to May! Oh the EU are so mean! Oh we're going to crash out ha ha. My blood is boiling.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 10:44

Of course, flights / ferry may be tricky for a few weeks, if it's just a long vacation !

Havanananana · 21/09/2018 10:48

Sir Ivan Rogers found out what happens when May is presented with unpalatable truths. She only hears what she wants to hear.

'Nothing has changed' (which sounds particularly scary if you say that statement with a Dalek voice). This is from 2011;

Brodie Clark resigns and hits out at Theresa May -
Suspended border control chief has quit over border checks row and will claim constructive dismissal

www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/nov/08/brodie-clark-resigns-theresa-may

DGRossetti · 21/09/2018 10:51

Sir Ivan Rogers found out what happens when May is presented with unpalatable truths. She only hears what she wants to hear.

Even Mrs Thatcher wasn't invulnerable ...

I wonder what the internal mathematics of the question "What is the best way to keep Corbyn out" look like in a Tory MPs head ?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 10:54

The EU would have let May faff around until after her conference, in the hope that she would eventually understand the clear choices for Brexit.

However, she was so arrogant at Salzburg - especially to Varadkhar - that they decided to end the charade early

This particular debacle is May's personal fault, not her Brexit team

She has the social skills of Trump, but doesn't realise she is not leading the world's superpower

Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 10:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

1tisILeClerc · 21/09/2018 11:20

@Mother. There will probably be a job going at No10, but don't take it!

Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 11:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Satsumaeater · 21/09/2018 11:25

Just did the political compass thing and my results are:

Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31

SusanWalker · 21/09/2018 12:24

So funny watching leavers defending May when you know they are all waiting with their knives for her to turn her back on them.

One of the comments on the John Crace article pointing out that May isn't even bright enough to use the threat of a people's vote to keep the ERG in check.

Really want to visit Salzburg now, it looks beautiful.

missmoon · 21/09/2018 12:24

Just seen that Jo Maugham's case in the Scottish court (the appeal) succeeded, case on whether the UK can unilaterally withdraw A50 and keep all existing privileges has been referred to the ECJ.

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1043094263880445957

Kofa · 21/09/2018 12:33

This is really a clusterf**k. I really think May thought the divide and conquer tactic would work and that the rest of the EU would cave in regarding the Irish border. The arrogance is breathtaking.

Regarding the Irish Border Stephen Rea's short filmon the Irish border is worth watching.
twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1043024527100452864

Mightybanhammer · 21/09/2018 12:40

For all those who read the RNorth blog, poster JDD is posting below the line again, yesterday and today.

Swipe left for the next trending thread