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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 22:25

Her speech was also too agressive and included an attack on Barnier - she only had 10 minutes, so not a wise use of time.

I've noticed Macron is very supportive of his countryman and has vigorously said so on other occasions.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

The tone of the prime minister’s address to the EU leaders on Wednesday night, during which she attacked Michel Barnier, is also said by sources to have been the cause of irritation.

prettybird · 20/09/2018 22:25

Iirc my economic theory correctly, the Philips curve meant that there was a correlation between inflation and unemployment and that there was a "natural" rate of unemployment that effectively equated to full employment/churn.

But that "natural rate" could be reduced with, eg, good regional development to reduce regional inequality. But concerted regional development policies have fallen by the wayside in the last 30+ years (EU/ERDF aid aside Hmm) - while zero hours contracts and quantitative easing will, I'm sure, have altered the modelling.

woman11017 · 20/09/2018 22:43

Her speech was also too agressive
Blair at least spoke French and had charm. So embarrassing. Blush
Even Churchill spoke daft english man French.

woman11017 · 20/09/2018 22:44

As in, May is so embarrassing.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 22:45

Just enough time before the Labour conference for this to sink in ...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/labour-could-win-15m-more-votes-by-backing-brexit-referendum

Labour 'could win 1.5m more votes' by backing Brexit referendum

YouGov says endorsing ‘people’s vote’ would bring net gain in general election
...
“the non-Labour voters that the party could win over outnumber the Labour voters that the party risks losing by almost nine to one.”

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 22:52

Allie Hodgkins-Brown @AllieHBNews
Friday’s Daily TELEGRAPH: “ ‘Brexit is the choice of the British people...pushed by those who predicted easy solutions...Those people are liars” #bbcpapers #tomorrowspapertoday

This is an interesting response to the cover. I am not sure if I agree with it or not, but yes, the design is odd...

robertsharp59 @robertsharp59
Blimey. I know this is a Macron quote... but... design is communication, and putting it above the fold like that, with a authoritative photograph, does rather look like the Daily Telegraph is endorsing the French president’s words here.
#TimeStamp This is the first thing I’ve seen or heard that makes me genuinely consider the possibility that #Brexit might not happen on 29 March.

Westministenders: Conference Season
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woman11017 · 20/09/2018 22:53

Labour 'could win 1.5m more votes
Not. going, to. happen. including the peoples vote. it's over, .Sad
I think the point last summer when the pictures were posted of James Chapman battered and terrified and of course Jo Cox's assassination, were actually the beginning of the end.
This is just endgame time. It will get so much worse.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 22:56

May is unusual in political leaders in lacking any visible charm
Very unusual to reach the top without this ability
She seems as robotic and off-key with other leaders in private as she is when addressing the rest of us in public

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 22:56

Well its to the point.

(I'm so glad I've refused to look on twitter until this evening. The whole scenario has been painful to follow as it is).

Westministenders: Conference Season
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BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 22:57

May "Battered and bruised but the brave face endures " Confused
< the world's smallest violin >

Motheroffourdragons · 20/09/2018 22:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 22:59

more

Westministenders: Conference Season
Westministenders: Conference Season
Westministenders: Conference Season
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RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 23:00

and

Westministenders: Conference Season
Westministenders: Conference Season
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RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 23:04

more.

Interesting to note how many papers went with the backs turned pic.

And the Mail chose not to use a photo of the summit and instead had a nice patrotic image of Kate.

Its almost as if neither the Mail nor the Telegraph could find an image from the summit itself which they could spin as positive or to their pro-Brexit line...

...thats quite something.

Westministenders: Conference Season
Westministenders: Conference Season
Westministenders: Conference Season
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woman11017 · 20/09/2018 23:04

She seems as robotic and off-key with other leaders in private as she is when addressing the rest of us in public
tbh I know her type well, home counties barking entitled white woman. But her facial twitches are becoming more and more extraordinary. 'Tells' I think psychiatrists call them.

Thanks mother Smile that'll do nicely.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 23:07

Papers keep writing "EU ambush"
... but it wasn't !

They'd planned some meaningless words of encouragement to boost her

Then she screwed up
with the tone of the German newspaper article and very sharply in her meeting with Varadkhar and her speech to the Council.

So they dumped the flowery words and spoke plainly, since she's obviously too thick to understand the situation otherwise

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 23:10

OR
May could insist on no checks in the Irish sea

  • not the same as a border, btw - and aims the vehicle over the cliff, but wiser heads chuck her overboard

OR
The Tory party civil war breaks out, the govt collapses and either Labour try for a minority govt or there is a GE

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 23:24

That telegraph cover is attracting a fair number of comments:

Henry Mance @henrymance
Introducing the Telegraph’s controversial new columnist...

James Cornish @cornishop
Finally, ⁦*@Telegraph*⁩ admits it was lying

Baz @therealbaretta
The Daily Telegraph might not be going the way of the Dodo and its readership after all. Welcome back DT

Mr H @fishytaste
Wow, looks like someone hacked the Telegraph...

S Styles @DunsPitcus
Amazingly the arch Brexiteer Daily Telegraph has put Macron’s damping quote about Brexiteer lies on its front cover! Its almost as if they are endorsing Marcon’s views! Is DT finally recognising that Brexit will leave Britain naked? #FBPE

James Chalmers @ProfChalmers
This is the most Remainy looking Telegraph front page I’ve ever seen, although I assume lots of rude things are said about Macron inside.

though there is also this interpretation:

Robert Davidson @robdavidson74
Not content with his poll ratings in France plummeting to levels less favourable than any of his five predecessors, @EmmanuelMacron now tries to mirror this in the UK. Anglo-French relations haven’t been this bad in years. This little “emperor” isn’t all he thought he was.

It really is quite the cover.

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RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 23:26

Craig Oliver @CraigOliver100
The mood at No10 will be bleak tonight. The chances of: no deal; a General Election; Corbyn in No10; a second referendum, all went up after Tusk’s comments. It’s almost impossible for @theresa_may to start looking at a Canada-style deal: as a Unionist she fears cutting NI loose.

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
He might not have that much in common with current admin, but he knows what it’s like to be on the inside

How many days until the Tory Party Conference???

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RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 23:28

Joey D'Urso @josephmdurso
Imagine staging this photo just so you can rinse a fellow world leader in your Instagram story. Absolutely brutal From Donald Tusk.

Westministenders: Conference Season
Westministenders: Conference Season
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BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 00:38

OT, but this disgusted me - school targets come before vulnerable children (furrin ones, at least)

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/sep/20/refugee-children-face-long-delays-accessing-education-in-uk

Refugee and asylum-seeking children face long delays accessing education after arriving in the UK, in many cases because
schools are reluctant to offer them a place over fears they will lower GCSE results and affect school league tables.

mathanxiety · 21/09/2018 01:25

does anyone else think that T.May is actually an extreme Brexitier? who makes JRM seem normal.

Or is she really putting her desire for power above that of the peoples of the UK? or is it just to keep the Tory party intact?

jasjas - TM can only (just about barely) contemplate a maximum of two elements of the Brexit conundrum at any given time, so what she says and what direction she appears to be going in depend entirely on what combination of two elements is currently occupying the space between her ears.

Peregrina · 21/09/2018 01:32

I was busy all day and missed the Salzburg news. Would anyone be able to summarize quickly what happened? I know that TM only had 10 minutes and seems to have made a mess.

I think TM is a swotty sort of person who can't adapt. Cameron gave her a homework assignment to get immigration down to 100,000 so she went at it with attempted gusto. Only got a B-/C+ for that assignment.
Now some of Britain have given her a Brexit assignment - looks like a D/E so far. Will she survive the Tory Conference?

Qwebec · 21/09/2018 03:25

I must say I find the Tusk photo really shocking. It's something I would expect from a news paper columnist, not a diplomat seems to me highly unprofessional. reminds me of the twitter diplomacy that led to the total breakdown of Canada Saoudi Arabia relations.

Surely that goes a against diplomacy rules101?

mathanxiety · 21/09/2018 04:30

BigChocFrenzy Thu 20-Sep-18 13:00:11
^Currently, nearly half the voters would be furious at Remain,
whereas nearly all of them - including sadly the current NI Secretary of State - neither know nor care about NI^

Yes indeed - there are no votes for the Tories in NI, and no votes for Labour either. If I were the DUP I would be getting a little twitchy right now, wondering when the rug will be pulled out.

Although... the DUP has links to the right authoritarian elements in the establishment in England and Scotland, and may be able to work on the Tories through them.

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