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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 10:59

The irony of course is that practically everyone in the UK originates from ''forrin' stock.

Iberian peninsula, originally, I believe ?

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 11:05

We are apparently getting rid of EU migrants, and our economy is descending so other people will leave to work in countries that are booming. But these departures won't be enough to keep the anti immigration lobby happy. They won't reach a point where they think job done-unless and until every person who could possibly have forrin ancestry has vanished.

Alternatively, they could have the strength of their convictions...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws

Quite a lot to take in there. Especially since Brexiteers struggle reading silently. Maybe it could be broken into a partwork ? Every week a new edition builds into a wonderful testament of racial purity.

Complete with a pull-out wall poster:

Westministenders: Conference Season
DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 11:09

Meanwhile, my FB QI feed tells me:

Word of the day: SNOLLYGOSTER - a dishonest or corrupt politician who will go to any lengths to achieve public office.

which appeared in the same feed as this picture Hmm

Westministenders: Conference Season
1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 11:40

@DGR
Where do the unicorns and sunny uplands fit in all this?

Motheroffourdragons · 20/09/2018 12:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 12:21

How does May think she will get a border down the sea past the DUP?

It's spinning plates, isn't it ?

That one is for the EU leaders, while she's at the "summit" (which isn't quite how the rest of Europe sees it ...). The moment she's back on Treeza Firma (which is obviously a different planet) then she'll spin another plate for the DUP.

1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 12:21

Something's got to give, and it won't be the EU.

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 12:24

Interesting - and emotive - metaphor ...

"The parents of Brexit have abandoned the whole process during childbirth, it's absolutely outrageous."

Labour MP Wes Streeting says Boris Johnson and David Davis have "failed to make the case" for Brexit, and backs a People's Vote on the final deal.

1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 12:37

{"We are committed to tackling any and all ideologies which pose a threat to the public's safety and security.}

Interesting statement by the police.
More so since it is in relation to holding a couple of 15 year olds on 'terrorism' charges (SKY news).

Thomasinaa · 20/09/2018 12:45

I can imagine a general election, with which ever party wins then going for the Irish sea option.

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 12:54

Tony Connelly @tconnellyRTE
Breaking: Irish source says Theresa May indicated during this morning's bilateral meeting with Leo Varadkar that she does not believe it is possible that a deal on the Irish backstop can be reached in time for the October European Council. [thread]
The source described the meeting as "useful" and said there was "an open exchange of views" between both sides, with the Irish delegation emphasising that the time was short and "we need to get to the stage where we can consider a legal text" on the backstop.
The source described British proposals so far as "only an outline, and we haven't seen specific proposals from the British side." Theresa May was "keen to bring negotiations to a conclusions as soon as possible...She said she doesn't think it's possible by the Oct summit."

Btw just having a few days not glued to twitter, for my own sanity.

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 20/09/2018 12:54

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Icantreachthepretzels · 20/09/2018 12:59

According to the Telegraph the EU leaders are practically unanimous in supporting a second referendum (I'm guessing not Hungary or Poland).
I don't know whether or not they have enough sway to influence Treeza ... but unfortunately I imagine "forrin interference" will get Leavers backs up.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2018 13:00

Currently, nearly half the voters would be furious at Remain,
whereas nearly all of them - including sadly the current NI Secretary of State - neither know nor care about NI

1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 13:07

As it stands, a solution that to one group or another is 'unthinkable' HAS to happen.
Assuming there are 'leavers' who can think critically the overall majority must be with 'Remain' by now, however reluctant.

Motheroffourdragons · 20/09/2018 13:17

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 13:17

According to the Telegraph the EU leaders are practically unanimous in supporting a second referendum (I'm guessing not Hungary or Poland).

Maybe one strategy the EU could take would be to require that any future deal with the UK is ratified by referendum for it to be valid. This might concentrate minds at this point, knowing that at some point in the future, they'll have to ask the people to vote on whatever the deal is.

I can imagine the UK squealing "that's not how the UK works", but since it was a referendum that caused all this in the first place, it's not really a convincing argument.

1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 13:36

I like that idea DGR.
With the EU electoral commission overseeing the voting stations similar to the way it is conducted in 'dodgy' states around the world as basically the UK Gov can't be trusted to conduct it in a fair manner.
I have no idea what those 15 year olds have done or are supposed to have done but I can bet that more will die in the UK due to the government's mishandling of Brexit than anything they could come up with.

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 13:44

It's ironic to think that had we had the promised referendum on the Lisbon treaty, we wouldn't be here.

And for all his sanctimony, maybe John Major should have put Maastricht to a referendum too ?

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 13:48

Notice how the OP headed people off that the pass to keep this in AIBU.

How many drips in a flood ?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3371056-to-think-our-children-will-not-forgive-us-if-we-dont-sort-Brexit-out

Hazardswan · 20/09/2018 13:58

Thread i started yesterday is still in chat, i @'d mumsnet in my post and asked for it to be left.

prettybird · 20/09/2018 14:34

Donald Tusk was very explicit in the press conference at the end of the "Informal Sunmit of Heads of State": that Ireland still needs to be sorted with a legal and binding backstop agreement before the Withdrawal Agreement ; that sufficient progress needs to be made at the October summit before the "extra" November summit will even be agreed to be held; that while there was some progress demonstrated within the Chequers "plan", it included proposals that were unacceptable and incompatible with the Single Market (no shit Sherlock Wink).

Not exactly what May would've been wanting to hear in the run up to her party conference Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 14:42

Considering the amount of grief that the UK are putting the EU though the tone of all EU negotiators is remarkably polite and understated.

woman11017 · 20/09/2018 14:45

@theresa_may
We held a people’s vote, it was the referendum in 2016. It is now a matter of trust in politicians that we should deliver on the will of the British people.

That’s why I’m calling on Labour to rule out a second referendum and not take us back to square one.

1tisILeClerc · 20/09/2018 14:45

If you had a toddler 2 years ago. How much have they learned over these 2 years?
Now consider what the UK Gov have learned over the same 2 years.