Westministenders: Conference Season

[RedToothBrush]

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

does anyone else think that T.May is actually an extreme Brexiter

Her 'go home van' approach and hostile environment at the home office lead me to believe she is in the anti forrin genes camp.

By now she must be better informed and her head must have realised that EU immigration has been beneficial and essential.However I suspect in her heart she prefers the hostile environment to everyone approach which = Brexit.

An extension should not be granted. The UK gov have buggered about for over 2 years and show no sign of getting serious about the deliberate destruction of the UK. The EU has important stuff to get on with.
This is taken from the comments section of the article in the Indy, ref Annie:

{ trisul
1 hour ago
India, Rhodesia, Egypt, Palestine ... when the British move on, there is a tradition to light a fire and slam the door. You see this tendency with Brexit, but the EU held firm and did not allow it.

When it happens, Unionists will try to burn Northern Ireland.}

The UK Gov have consistently failed to learn and have this crazy notion that it still has an empire to back it up.
WRONG, the UK ballsed up in all these areas.

How would a campaign for power based on not giving the public a say work
Perefectly:
uk.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-trade-deal-scrap-european-union-food-standards-after-brexit-2018-9

Perfectly.

There were pockets on civil disruption in 2011 and back in 1981. However, its easy for the MSM to largely dismiss the outrage of the deprived and marginalised. The only people who look at the sociological aspects of such events are Guardian reading liberals apparently. How ironic.

Civil Disruption is going to come from the already existing and funded groups, like FLA, EDL, their unionist counterparts and others . The chaotic and violent events in Sunderland over the weekend are extremely concerning.

With an depleted and undermined police force, unable to access the most basic of EU mechanisms for fighting crime. Police who are also citizens of the country and will be worried about the safety of their loved ones.

There were pockets on civil disruption in 2011 and back in 1981.

Exactly. Pockets. And there was a threshold above which having a few quid meant you could pretend it wasn't happening. That's never been upscaled so that everybody is feeling the pain.

On a related note that literally nobody is talking about, how wise is it of the current government to piss the police off with the "punch in the nose" 2% pay rise when it's very likely in 6 months or less the same government might be relying on the same police to do their dirty work ?

I did like the idea of mass industrial action before Brexit. Would certainly add to the authentic 1970s vibe UKIP are forever channeling.

Yes 1tis you are completely correct that leaflet was pretty even handed and should have been at least enough for intelligent people to investigate further.

But lots of people don't have the time, inclination or interest to investigate. I remember my parents' carer saying she didn't know what to vote and didn't know where to get proper facts rather than spin. In the end she voted Leave justifying it with w"We've had enough"._
_
Why wasn't there a comprehensive document? In Scotland they produced a very detailed publicly available white paper before the referendum.

Police who are also citizens of the country and will be worried about the safety of their loved ones.

same for the army.

army
Exactly DGR file under Yugoslavia.

Speaking of industrial action.

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/20/wetherspoons-and-mcdonalds-staff-to-strike-together

Staff at JD Wetherspoon, McDonald’s and TGI Fridays are to strike next month in an unprecedented action by employees in the hospitality sector, where a campaign to recruit new trade union members is gathering pace among workers who have traditionally not been organised.

(contd)

I can't help but feel their efforts would be better directed elsewhere ?

I seem to recall people being pissed off about the leaflet because it cost 9 million quid or thereabouts. Back then potential Brexit voters would have been mocking magic money trees now they think there is endless pots of cash to fix everything the EU supposedly broke

Thank you@woman. That Businessinsider article makes me sick, not just what it says but leading on from it the way that the supposedly 'proud' 'Sovereign' nation is blatantly 'doublespeaking' to scrape some deals together. While I have no liking for Gove, at least his stated position on farming was in the right direction. If the UK expects any trade with the EU (selling UK produce) it HAS to follow EU standards.
If the UK is to become a 'hanger oner' of the USA we should look to the way the USA treats it's poorer states, we won't get better deals than they have, we will be the bottom of the pile.

If the UK is to become a 'hanger oner' of the USA we should look to the way the USA treats it's poorer states, we won't get better deals than they have, we will be the bottom of the pile.

I suspect at the height of the British Empire, some overseas colonies were much better treated than British counties - or in the case or Ireland, countries.

You missed a small trick there @DGR,
{Staff at JD Wetherspoon, McDonald’s and TGI Fridays are to strike next month)
People might have to eat nutritious food instead.

@DGR
I think those overseas who suffered the deaths akin to ISIS treatment, as reported a year or two back, for refusing to bow to British rule may have other opinions.

I suspect only the Colonies with a predominance of white settlers DGR.

1tisILeClerc, Peregrina

Hence the qualifier "some" ...

Stating that this is categorically NOT the way this should be handled but
either by time (history) or place (other parts of the world, happening NOW) the issue in NI would be resolved by sending the army in and 'eliminating resistance'.
While this is of course preposterous, I saw an article saying this route had been suggested by UK politicians around 1970 IIRC. The suggestion was for 'removal of people'. Forcible repatriation.

'Other despotic nations are available'.

Forcible repatriation
@emilydugan
Exclusive: This father was pinned to the floor naked and arrested by the Home Office in a raid triggered by a rogue DVLA tip-off. He was in Britain legally.
www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/man-arrested-naked-home-office-raid?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bfsharetwitter&utm_term=.pb1KMgq7R

After the Troubles started in the 60s, both sides pretty quickly worked out that "winning" wasn't possible.

P.J. O'Rourke writes about it in "Holidays in Hell" where he interviews a British officer, and a pIRA commander ... he notes that they both used the phrase "an acceptable level of violence" when asked if there was a solution. This was the mid 1980s.

This is one reason why governments of any stripe are not to be trusted too much. All the while the British public were being told how the IRA would never prevail, and were expected to soak up the bombs the politicians damn well knew it would never stop.

That is horrific woman.

We are apparently getting rid of EU migrants, and our economy is descending so other people will leave to work in countries that are booming. But these departures won't be enough to keep the anti immigration lobby happy.

They won't reach a point where they think job done-unless and until every person who could possibly have forrin ancestry has vanished.

The referendum result inadvertently ( or vertently?!) pandered to the ' hoardes of immigrants ' mindset. This is a very dangerous path. See the events in Sunderland over the weekend.

Next on the agenda will be 're'patriation or eviction of legal migrants of any hue. Anyone is fair game.

With a NI secretary allowing (by failing to deal with it) the punishment beatings and maiming of people in NI NOW, it does not bode well.
I think a 'leaver' comment on a newspaper article (mail or whichever) suggesting that this sort of action should be 'imported' to the UK mainland.
While 'lawlessness' is something we think of when there is a particular news item on other parts of the world, the UK needs to wake up to the fact it is present here and now within the UK. While it is not 'Brexit specific' it will be a contributory factor in the situation worsening.

{They won't reach a point where they think job done-unless and until every person who could possibly have forrin ancestry has vanished.}
The irony of course is that practically everyone in the UK originates from ''forrin' stock.
Even 2000 years ago as DGR pointed out, 'Roman' soldiers were tramping around in the UK, of course 'Roman' being a wide selection of persons from all around the Mediteranean.