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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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SusanWalker · 19/09/2018 19:48

I picked up my sons meds from the pharmacy today and asked them if they thought there would be a shortage if we have a no deal brexit. Apparently if their suppliers couldn't get them from one manufacturer they would just get them from another. I should not worry because a lot of people take the same meds so it will be fine. They looked at me as if I was crazy.

I don't feel at all comforted. In fact I feel worse because I think they didn't realise how clogged everything could get.

Peregrina · 19/09/2018 19:48

I am not sure that Theresa May would win a lot of Remain votes from Labour. She might keep the reluctant Remain votes from Tories who might otherwise go over to the Lib Dems, SNP, Greens or whoever.

Going back to the interview with Deadwood Redwood. For all his shouting all he could come up with was that it won't happen because when he was the world's biggest importer via Dover, there weren't any problems. It didn't matter what happened in 2001, or 1991 or even 1861 chum. What we need to hear is after 29th March this has been agreed and on that, he could say nothing.

Peregrina · 19/09/2018 19:49

My DB is also on a cocktail of drugs, from Germany and Italy to name two. Yes, he's very worried. It adds insult to injury if you are one like him who voted Remain.

HesterThrale · 19/09/2018 19:55

Welcome to all the lurkers!

Just saw John Redwood again, up against Wes Streeting on C4 News. I think he looked as if he (JR) knows he's losing.

frankiestein401 · 19/09/2018 19:58

if it's a no deal i suspect that getting flights in the air won't actually be amenable to 'quick' intergovermental deals.

it'll depend on the insurers/leasers - no airline will risk flying uninsured and no airport will risk their insurance by operating uninsured flights - i just can't see insurers rolling over licenses, maintenance accreditations, operational assessments etc

the same considerations apply to any regime where there is risk of significant insurance loss - deaths or major infrastructure hits - so that applies to medicines - possibly also cargo handling and obviously radio isotope transport.

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/09/2018 20:16

(2) if they did call her bluff she'd win lots and lots of Remain votes from Labour in a GE.

Only if labour didn't come out and promise the exact same thing - and why wouldn't they? what would they have to lose?

I voted labour last time - I might not this time. But the promise of a second referendum that still might go the wrong way would not induce me to vote the tories in for another 5 years. 5 more years of this lot and the NHS will be history - brexit or not.
Nothing short of an unequivocal 'if you vote for me I will stop brexit right away and without any need for another referendum' would get me to even consider voting tory ... and even then I probably wouldn't do it.

SwedishEdith · 19/09/2018 20:16

GeorgeWParker

Salzburg summit hasn't started yet, but the scale of May's problem on NI border is already clear. Her pitch to EU27 leaders tonight: how would you feel if your country was carved in two?

Erm, I think lots of the EU27 know rather a lot about carving countries up. The UK still acting like a victim.

www.ft.com/content/4fcea392-bb83-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5

Peregrina · 19/09/2018 20:25

5 more years of this lot and the NHS will be history - brexit or not.
Indeed, and that will keep a lot of Labour voters onside, even if they have to hold their noses to vote.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 20:46

Priorities of voting in this household:

  1. stop brexit
  2. stop tories

Labour take note.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 20:49

John Redwood is trending apparently. Grin Smile to all new posters.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 20:52

That's pretty much the same over here DG

Susan it's true in the sense more popular drugs would be more likely to be thought of...other than that if they can't get them in the country then they are going to find supply challenging.

Thanks up thread to the CEO links...I'll have an exciting night in bed writing emails Grin

Hi lurkers!

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 20:55

That's pretty much the same over here DG

Maybe watch YouGov ?

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 21:29

"John Redwood is trending"

John Redwood is also barking
Even MrsT exiled those mad staring eyes

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 21:33

Meanwhile, back on earth ...

Taoiseach: No progress in Brexit negotiations on Irish backstop

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0919/994793-salzburg/

"I don’t think we’re any closer to a withdrawal agreement than we were in March.
So I can't report any progress at this stage unfortunately, but we’ll keep working on it."

< oh, so all the optimism and claims of breakthrough were just Tory froth >

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 21:35

@darrylxxx
Seriously? Saying that to the Irish government? Beggars belief.

@GeorgeWParker
Salzburg summit hasn't started yet, but the scale of May's problem on NI border is already clear. Her pitch to EU27 leaders tonight: how would you feel if your country was carved in two?
www.ft.com/content/4fcea392-bb83-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5
1:22 pm - 19 Sep 2018

ShockThat actually made me laugh, but it's probably me nerves. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 21:41

Businesses are busy stockpiling materials, from car parts to chocolate ingredients

Hopefully pharma are stockpiling enough meds too

Interesting that when private individuals do this, "stockpiling" becomes "hoarding" 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/19/hoarding-business-brexit-britain-stockpiling-car

SusanWalker · 19/09/2018 21:44

I hope it will all be ok. I just got the impression that they hadn't even thought about the possibility of shortages. That they were just assuming that because it wasn't a niche medicine it would be ok. They were looking at me like i was a nutter with a sandwich board predicting the end of the world.

I suppose one of the side effects of following this thread is the shock when you discover that quite a lot of people don't even think about brexit and just assume everything will be ok because it always has been.

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/09/2018 21:52

the shock when you discover that quite a lot of people don't even think about brexit and just assume everything will be ok because it always has been.

Yes - over the summer I went for my asthma checkup and when I mentioned to the nurse that I wanted to have a couple of inhalers spare for when brexit happened she asked 'Why?'.
This was well after the technical notices warning about the need to stockpile certain essential meds came up ... how could a nurse not know?
I don't know if inhalers are one of the medicines that will be affected or not ... but I'm certainly not going to be taking any chances.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 19/09/2018 21:53

Susan I had the exact same reaction from the pharmacist when I asked about the possible disruption to the supply DH’s Parkinson’s medication. Perhaps they’ve all been practising their ‘there-will-not-be-a-problem-Madam’ look to avoid mass panic...

1tisILeClerc · 19/09/2018 21:55

While not on the scale of concern as those of you who need specific meds, a 'blow' for MN staples is the threat of price rises of cakes as Finsbury foods (yes, no one else recognises them either) will probably have to put up prices when they can no longer import eggs and flour from the EU at a good price. They make the 'Mary Berry' range apart from a lot of others.

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/09/2018 22:26

Playing catch up..Not sure if this has been posted.

www.opendemocracy.net/sunny-hundal/labour-won-t-support-brexit-their-critics-are-ignoring-all-clues

Hasenstein · 19/09/2018 22:35

I suppose one of the side effects of following this thread is the shock when you discover that quite a lot of people don't even think about brexit and just assume everything will be ok because it always has been.

I have the same feeling. I'm a trustee of our local foodbank and last week wrote to the manager asking if she'd considered the effects of a no deal Brexit on food donations (if there are food shortages in the supermarket, people will be far less likely to donate) and whether our warehouse (ahem, garage) was secure enough.

Haven't heard back yet and am wondering if she thinks I'm a nutter for raising the issue.

Ah well, plenty of time yet -as Teresa May said when she triggered Article 50-.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 22:46

The Home Office has allocated £2m for a dedicated new unit of 50 police officers and staff, who will prepare for the possibility of public disorder, protests and disruption on transport and at borders, and re-learn how to use outdated methods of accessing information that is currently accessible via shared databases

Simon Kempton, operational lead for the Police Federation of England and Wales, said it was “highly concerning that with Brexit only six months away we still don’t know what the policing landscape will look like,” adding: “The government – as ever – needs to get its house in order to avoid Brexit being at best a bureaucratic nightmare and at worse a dangerous situation created by its inability to provide certainty

My worry is that the officers used to staff this unit will need to be diverted from other already stretched areas, thus creating more capacity and back-filling issues,” Mr Kempton said

There have been discussions about cancelling officers’ rest days and putting a moratorium on leave in the weeks and even months immediately pre and post 29 March … Planning and resourcing around [potential disorder] will put further strain on a service which is already struggling from years of cuts and a lack of investment and support

Britain risks losing access to 40 tools, including Europol, the European arrest warrant and Schengen Information System II (SIS II) – a huge database containing information on terrorists, criminals, missing people and objects, to which the police say there is “no alternative

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-no-deal-security-police-agreement-plans-contingency-eu-european-arrest-warrant-europol-a8545201.html

Hasenstein · 19/09/2018 22:56

a dedicated new unit of 50 police officers and staff,

Really? So many? That's about one for every 1,880 square miles. Hope they've got fast cars.