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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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woman11017 · 19/09/2018 17:07

@SkyNewsBreak
Sky News has obtained a confidential memo sent by EU airports to the European Commission which says they will be unable to cope with a 'no-deal' Brexit and warns of "major disruption and heightened safety risks"'

'like a war' you said a while back DGR very like a war.........

Not heard back yet Hazard but this is quite useful tracking their responses. Mine is David Gauke.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 17:10

'like a war' you said a while back DGR very like a war.

I rarely listen to myself though ....

PCPlumsTruncheon · 19/09/2018 17:13

m.youtube.com/watch?v=s_eGj3wPEDU

If your blood pressure can take it, it’s worth watching this in full as it plumbs new depths even by Fromage’s standards. He basically says that it doesn’t matter if we all end up burning furniture to keep warm and eating rats as ‘You can’t put a price on freedom’. And the bus was Boris’s fault.
I honestly fail to understand how anyone could watch this and still be glad that they voted to Leave and still think it’s a good idea.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 17:18

Again, that shift in narrative and tone ...

bellinisurge · 19/09/2018 17:18

@PCPlumsTruncheon - my cat has taken pity on me and is purring on my knee to soothe me.
Faridge is a wanker.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 17:20

pcplums I can't watch that. I'd have a fit watching him say that. Wanker. Telling us we need "freedom" while he shackles himself to germany? And gets an eu pension. Nope.

woman thank you. It's nice seeing how everyone's MP works! And you lot today have really lifted my spirits.

Icant Grin yes defo mention that! I did wonder if my MP was so shite because he's in a sure thing labour seat...he just doesn't give a toss because he doesn't have to.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 17:21

EU airports unable to cope with safety risks of 'no-deal' Brexit, leaked memo reveals
news.sky.com/story/eu-airports-unable-to-cope-with-safety-risks-of-no-deal-brexit-leaked-memo-reveals-11502372
The cost of FOM?

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 17:35

Stop Brexit if supplies of vital medication can't be guaranteed

The Chair of the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, said officials must ensure drugs don’t run out if there’s no Brexit deal. The Government is stockpiling medicines. This is not acceptable. Patients with long-term conditions need medication immediately or they could die

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228631

There are some absolute stars who are gravely ill, out volounteering and working so hard at their own expense to stop this nonsense. Halo

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 17:39

BUT
that's assuming that there will be international flights in / out of the UK, to get to the EU airports

UK airports won't initially have this problem in the event of no deal... because they won't have international flights !

Maybe these concerns are for what comes a few weeks after Brexit no deal, when the govt will have done a panic U-turn to get flights running again

  • in that case, yes, EU airports will need the 1-stop, to avoid angry Brits queuing for 10 hrs and completely logjamming their airport buildings (Assuming they just don't ban the Brits)
BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 17:41

The EU COmmision stakeholder notices actually made this fairly clear, but looks like EU airports resisted the very expensive preparations
and now it's too late.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 17:42

That's what Patrick's just said. BigChoc it's just making 'no flights' official.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 17:49

woman fantastic. Thank you for sharing. Star

Signed and shared.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 17:58

@EuropeFife
Brexit minister asks opposition Labour to clarify whether it backs #PeoplesVote
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-raab/uk-brexit-minister-asks-opposition-labour-to-clarify-whether-it-backs-second-vote-idUKKCN1LZ1VE?il=0 … via @GoogleNews

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 18:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xuana · 19/09/2018 18:37

I'm delurking to say that I emailed my MP recently, to ask if the cocktail of meds my DM relies on would be on the list of 200, and had exactly the same reply as Mrs8 - word for word! I've replied to say he hasn't answered the question at all, and that if he doesn't know, could he please ask his colleague the Minister for Health who presumably does?

As I've delurked, I'll also say a massive thanks to all those who have been contributing to these threads. I've been reading since the beginning. At the moment I'm really struggling with the cognitive dissonance of knowing all this is looming, and yet people in my day-to-day life blithely seeming to ignore it and going about business as usual. It keeps me (somewhat) sane to know that I'm not the only one that is worried. I've learnt a lot from this thread, and following the links that people post.

I have also wondered whether this whole thing would be over in a week if road haulage companies blockaded Dover to mimic the impact of no-deal - what do people think? I know it would be horrible and have massive knock-on impacts, but surely better to make the point now, than before we've gone past the point of... well, not quite no-return, but certainly no-return for a bloody long time?

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 18:39

I have also wondered whether this whole thing would be over in a week if road haulage companies blockaded Dover to mimic the impact of no-deal
Yes it would. The only way out of this is by Industrial Action.

xuana · 19/09/2018 18:42

Righty-ho then. I'm off to find some CEOs of road haulage companies to write to :)

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SwedishEdith · 19/09/2018 18:54

I have also wondered whether this whole thing would be over in a week if road haulage companies blockaded Dover to mimic the impact of no-deal - what do people think?

Was talking about this last night. No business would put in place a 'No deal' option without testing it and testing it and having a drill. It would be insane.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 18:54

Erm. .. if any one wants to.share any CEO's details I wouldn't mind writing to them as well. Smile

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 18:57

I'm off to find some CEOs of road haulage companies to write to
And the unions. On this, they are on the same side. Smile

the unions are largely against Brexit because they know it will hurt jobs. Last week the TUC, which consults trade unions before taking a stance, said it backed a second referendum if the Brexit deal failed workers. The three biggest unions: Unison, GMB and Unite – have all hinted at a second vote too

www.opendemocracy.net/sunny-hundal/labour-won-t-support-brexit-their-critics-are-ignoring-all-clues

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 19:00

TUC: www.tuc.org.uk/contact
Road Haulage Union URTU: www.urtu.com/

SwedishEdith · 19/09/2018 19:03

Re: talk of an election:

Jo Maugham QC

So here's an interesting thing. I am told that Theresa May has put her name to a document promising that there will be no second vote on leaving the EU within this Parliament. /1

Why would you feel the need to add those words? Is the plan that if Chequers fails Theresa May will go for a General Election and seek to win Remain votes by offering a referendum? /2

That would be quite a cute strategy - not least because (1) it would be a pretty effective stick with which to chivvy ERG types into supporting Chequers but also (2) if they did call her bluff she'd win lots and lots of Remain votes from Labour in a GE. /3

‏Source is an insider. It also has, to my ear at least, the ring of plausibility. /ENDS

SwedishEdith · 19/09/2018 19:07

Oh, god, Mrsr8, I've just seen who your MP is Shock. I can't remember the detail now, but it was him who insisted on the referendum question or something. I'll have to check now what it was but he's a hardcore headbanger.

SamPotatoes · 19/09/2018 19:16

Another one delurking- I've been following for a while.

My brother is on a cocktail of meds, including a very rare one prescribed by his consultant who works the other side of the country. My mother contacted his consultant to ask what would happen if Brexit affected the supply of drugs and was told that they had already arranged for a 3 month supply to be issued to their patients before brexit.

On the one hand we're relieved that they have a plan already. But rather frightening that it is necessary.

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