Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 13:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShinyElena · 19/09/2018 13:32

Both the Redwood and Bridgen interview is a classic.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 13:44

John redwood looked like he was going to cry
Victoria had to tell him off for being a shouty. Grin
No Mrs8 he's your MP.?Flowers

Hasenstein · 19/09/2018 14:06

Hazard

Have written to my (pretty useless Tory aparatchnik) MP. Will let you know if I hear back.

Motheroffourdragons · 19/09/2018 14:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 14:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 14:34

I don't understand how we will have enough time to keep reworking stuff.

Well there's a lot of scope for variation. Four year olds can easily rework mashed potato into a spectacular assortment of differing structures, incorporating other seasonal veg, and the odd bit of lego.

However, at the end of the day it will still be inedible muck and thrown out without a moments notice.

I guess that's the beauty of words ?

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 14:53

@Haggis_UK
Donald Tusk - The UK will need to re-work its proposals on the Irish question & on economic framework corporation. Tusk is going to call for an emergency #brexit summit of #EU leaders around mid-November to finalise a deal with the UK.

So late........

1tisILeClerc · 19/09/2018 14:58

A very polite way of saying 'sod off and do your homework properly'.

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 15:36

Does this mid November emergency summit replaces the October 18th summit?

@JasonJHunter
3/ The EU27 are READY and expecting a no deal. Chequers is dead 100%. EU deal on the WA or no deal. TM the PM has run out of time. If agreement not in sight by Oct 18th formal summit then no kicking the can down the road.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 15:37

Second referendum on Brexit COULD happen admits Tory minister in surprisingly candid interview

Never heard of him, tbh ! but here is the "frank" interview:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/second-referendum-brexit-could-happen-13273348

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 15:44

woman The EU Council of Ministers (heads of govt) meet monthly, usually every 4th/5th Thursday

September:
May makes a totally meaningless statement - Tory conference coming up - and leaves while the grownups discuss

October:
May makes another statement - after Tory conf - and leaves, still without being allowed to join discussion

November:
Last chance to nail down a deal in time for approval (unelss A50 extended 6 weeks max)
May could give final statement / plea / waffle

HE27 heads of govt will NOT be negotiating with her - Barnier does that with Robbins - but B will have reported earlier and they will decide if there is enough for a WA

December:
Usually no meeting

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 15:46

Thanks Bigchoc
@BethRigby
No 10 strategy; Warning to Remainers; don’t accept Chequers = No Deal. Warning to Brexiteers; don’t accept Chequers = risk Brexit. Not very subtle is it?

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 15:52

Thank you to every one who emailed today.

I was feeling all shit and hopeless but then you lot inspired me! and keep me sane ish

Started a thread in chat, yeah it'll probably get moved but I thought fuck it I'm gonna try

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3370225-I-know-Im-annoying-but?watched=1&msgid=81144283#81144283

Off to catch up on this thread Smile

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 15:59

mrs you got a reply that quick?!

Wow.

Agree its waffle but at least it's some sort of communication. 'Best possible deal' ... ... the no deal scenario was well and truly dodged there.

Your a star Star

He's another bellend.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 16:01

May to reject Barnier’s Irish border proposals as ‘unacceptable’

Arlene twigged and put her big foot down on May's kitten heels.

  • Brexiters love a tech "solution" when its the compicated NI/RoI land border but not the far more feasible tech of checking on ships and in ports for the sea border of a far smaller amount of goods imported into NI from Britain.

So May will state at the September Council that the UK rejects Barniers latest "de-dramatisation" of the border.

This is before the Tory conf, so she has to look tough.
The E27 will throw her a bone / flowery compliments about being a tough women.

The UK keeps expecting German & France to slap down the RoI, but this won't happen
EIther this backstop gets accepted at the very last moment, maybe a January "burn the midnight oil" panic, or no deal (or even Remain if May is toppled then ?)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/19/theresa-may-hits-back-at-barnier-criticism-of-chequers-proposals-brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 16:03

Well done for writing, MrsR
You deserved a mucg better reply
Waffling bollocks indeed 🤦🏻‍♀️

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 19/09/2018 16:08

Well there's a lot of scope for variation. Four year olds can easily rework mashed potato into a spectacular assortment of differing structures, incorporating other seasonal veg, and the odd bit of lego.
Ah dg I see you've visited my house recently 😂

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 16:15

or even Remain if May is toppled then
You, red and others are lovely, always putting in lovely cheerer uppers. Smile

This Dankske bank story doesn't seem to be in English Newspapers but was on WATO today. I think Sarah Montague's doing a good job.Smile

At 20.25 Bill Browder who investigates Russian financial corruption is on, implications of Danske judgement for the Russian money hidden in London (and the brexit).

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bk1c1f

www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/danske-bank-set-to-shed-light-on-russian-money-flows-to-europe-10735008

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 16:31

The UK keeps expecting German & France to slap down the RoI, but this won't happen

Well I don't.

Definite change in mood from Brexiteers now. No attempt to deny the warnings now, just an attempt to minimise them. Also I've noticed a slight deflection back to the government .... ("if we don't get the best deal it's the governments fault") which will be music to Labour ears, although they are going to then fall into the trap of thinking they'll somehow get a consolation prize here.

Even the BBC has got a complete Brexit mini-site now. With some comment from Germany ...

13luckyblackcats · 19/09/2018 16:32

@hazardswan My Labour (campaigned Remain) MP called me today in response to my email this morning. He seems to think a General Election is quite likely. On medicines he is concerned as well. I actually felt encouraged by the conversation, there are some sane MPs out there.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 16:36

lucky second response of the day so far and it's the most positive.

Your a star Star

And I'll hold off calling your MP a bellend...For now.

Seriously a call back? ... I'm gonna start harassing mine out of spite now for ignoring me Grin

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 16:38

I actually felt encouraged by the conversation, there are some sane MPs out there.

For some reason the IDS idea of "the quiet man" sprung to mind.

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/09/2018 16:47

I'll email mine when I can face him Hazardswan ... but I'm afraid he is a total and utter tory bellend so the response will be enraging waffle that I won't even be able to read because of my blood pressure.
He will respond though - as terrible a human being is (and he is - he is one of the landlord MPs who voted against safety standards for tennants) he does at least email back.

But I need a stiff drink before I can even contemplate getting in contact with the loathsome creature. I might remind him that his majority is smaller than Amber Rudd's, though - that always cheers me up Grin