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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 19:23

Old Foxy is making deals in the USA. Privatising the NHS on the way (or faster). It's a great deal apparently, the UK only has to 'kiss posterior' quite a lot in return for the deal.

Peregrina · 18/09/2018 19:25

Crossover Day – when the Leave majority will disappear, even if not a single voter changes their mind about Brexit – will now be in January, according to a sensational YouGov poll.

And what do we do about it? Short of Labour coming out as anti-Brexit and then forcing a GE which they win. They have to come out against it, otherwise we get the "80% voted for parties which support Brexit" story rammed down our throats. Even though many who supported Labour wanted to see the NHS supported, or to stop cuts in Education.

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yaralie · 18/09/2018 19:36

Even now some Leave voters have realised they made a big mistake and would vote Remain.

These are the more intelligent ones who pay some attention to evidence. Unfortunately the majority of Leave voters ignore facts, which were never relevant to them. They parrot meaningless slogans fed to them by the Express, DM and Sun.

These turkeys who voted for Xmas could never profit from any "brexit bonus" like JRM and his billionaire friends. They would suffer - but they are so gullible that all their suffering would still be blamed on the EU.

It is much easier to fool people than it is to get them to admit they have been fooled.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 18/09/2018 19:38

And what do we do about it? Short of Labour coming out as anti-Brexit and then forcing a GE which they win. They have to come out against it, otherwise we get the "80% voted for parties which support Brexit" story rammed down our throats.

That story is so maddening. It’s outrageous that ‘voted for parties that support Brexit’ is passed off as the same thing as ‘voted to support Brexit’

As an aside, one of my Facebook friends is a total Corbynista. Watching him attempting to talk sense about Brexit, whilst simultaneously saying nothing that reflects badly on Corbyn is a sight to behold. He’s quite the contortionist...

Yaralie · 18/09/2018 19:51

The only thing we can do is to actively support the LIbDems and the People's Vote campaign.

We should not have to accept any form of "damage limitation" brexit. We all now know that any kind of brexit will damage our country. If we care about our country we must do what we can to stop this madness.

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 19:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 19:57

Flowers Mrs8 are you an 'outraged user'? Grin
I wonder who did write/type his answers. Grin

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 20:12

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 20:12

Well done again mrs Smile

HermioneGoesBackHome · 18/09/2018 20:22

I love how they think that MN can make or break a whole political campaign!

Maybe this is what we need to remember. We have much more power than we are crediting ourselves.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 20:23

OK, who is going to put their hands up to this claim?
Mumsnet is a boiling over pan of looniness.
Send your comments to the Guardian.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 20:25

{Maybe this is what we need to remember. We have much more power than we are crediting ourselves.}

Could be even more influential if it weren't buried under the 'can't chose which handbag' section.

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 20:30

Posted on the holiday thread, but no cards with no deal?

@DeborahMeaden
Is this correct??

@JasonJHunter
Wait til Brits realise that their UK bank issued debit and credit cards WILL NOT WORK inside the EU after a no deal Brexit! Direct from the horses mouth today... that's the thing about Rules based economies.. they play…

@cmcknz77
Replying to @DeborahMeaden
Yup. Visa and Mastercard currently have legal and FS agreements with the EU applying to all 28 members of the EU. If we leave the EU the UK will need to renegotiate those agreements in order for our cards to work and until those agreements are signed cards will not work.

HermioneGoesBackHome · 18/09/2018 20:43

If this is true, it all gets better and better then.....

SwedishEdith · 18/09/2018 20:52

I saw that Tweet earlier. It's very alarming. We took cash to France this year to avoid bank charges. But some places (some peages and some petrol stations) will only take cards. This would have a catastrophic impact on transport if not sorted immediately.

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 20:52

From memory it's true and came out during technical notices.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 18/09/2018 20:56

Been trying to talk to my OH about this and he is in complete and utter denial. His attitude is that it will never come to this and things won’t be that bad. Wants to know why I’m getting so wound up about it.
I just want to shake him and feel so angry that the major news outlets are not reporting this properly. So many people are going to be completely unprepared in a no-deal scenario.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 20:58

imo, a completely unnecessary risk to plan flights in April just for a holiday - that was the question on the holiday thread
However, holidays are the least of my concerns

There is still this touching faith, not just among Leavers, but some Remainers too,
that the govt won't let any serious consequences befall the country, or even inconveniences for foreign holidays
regardless of whether there is a deal.

"They just won't let it happen"
So the rules of international law, trade, transport, agencies will all be suspended because the UK govt says so ? Hmm

I rate the chances of no deal as about 70%

In which case, I expect serious disruption for the first month, maybe 3 months
At least as bad as the 3-day week of the 1970s - which caned the economy - and possibly a lot worse for ordinary people, with far more areas of normal life affected

Then over the next 3 years:
unemployment, business losses etc rising massively, while house prices crash - like the 1980s de-industrialisation

SwedishEdith · 18/09/2018 20:58

Further to Jason Hunter's tweet

@LomaxSteve

Debit and credit authorisation & settlement are covered by Visa and MasterCard rules predominantly & so can't see what rule brexit would cause other than availability of comms. I'm a remainer, love what you're doing but desperately keen that you don't get things wrong.

Andre den Houter
‏***@AndreDenHouter*

VISA and MasterCard are companies which have to comply by the rules set out in agreements, treaties and the likes. If their are none after Brexit (without a deal) then there is no legal bases to operate on.

Stuart Foster
‏*@shakerstu*

Presumably the opposits applies too - EU issued cards would no longer work in the UK?

Andre den Houter
@AndreDenHouter

Most probably.

Andre den Houter
‏***@AndreDenHouter*

Art 50.3 Lisbon treaty. 3. The Treaties (yep... all 750) shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, (in case no-deal or extension)

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 21:00

Yes, many petrol pumps take cards only. Handy as they are open 24 Hours. Those at supermarkets for example are often 'personed' during usual 'shop' hours.

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 21:09

Thank you Swedish. What a pickle.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 21:12

How nicely understated!

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 21:12

Exclusive: Emergency New Plans Drafted To Prepare Labour For Sudden Resignation Of Jeremy Corbyn
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/exclusive-emergency-new-plans-drafted-to-prepare-labour-for-sudden-resignation-of-jeremy-corbyn/ar-BBNuuhm?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout
The proposed rule change - drafted by senior allies of the leader - would add a brand new clause to the Labour constitution, effectively putting the NEC in charge of the party rather than Watson
What we really need now is a committee of trots to get us out of this mess, for sure.Hmm

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2018 21:18

I love how they think that MN can make or break a whole political campaign!

Maybe this is what we need to remember. We have much more power than we are crediting ourselves.

I've been trying to tell everyone on MN this for several years.

Women have political power. They just need to weild it. MN is the perfect place to do this.

I don't care what colour you are. The more women that do, the better regardless of political leaning.

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