Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 15:21

What about the ones being so vocal on fb?

I think you underestimate the capacity for self-delusion Brexiteers have already shown. Remember, they don't do "facts", so can't be shamed. Trumps already shown how a simple lie can't be faced down.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 15:23

I'm amazed at all this repeated carelessness by different politicians / public servants that has enabled (deliberately ? ) such sensitive documents to be photographed.

I have always carried my personal or work documents securely in closed opaque cases - since teen days !

Are our ruling class really so slapdash & arrogant, too posh to take the normal precautions that ordinary people do ? 

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 15:28

Carelessness with an employer's important data can - and has - led to prompt sackings in business,
even without that data ever actually being seen by outsiders

Blundering amateurs - because these "leaks" so far have caused only embarassment to the leaker, not advantage

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 15:47

A maintenance shutdown, brought forward as BMW is saying provides a useful breather to find out which way the wind is blowing.
Eminently pragmatic and organised as the Germans tend to be.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 15:50

I thought it was standard procedure to leave laptops either on the train or in the back of unlocked cars? How else do you get an upgrade?
I think it was about one a week a few years back.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 16:05

{Spending on healthcare was set to increase by 2.3% in 2019, but the figure will now increase by 2.5% - amounting to an extra €400m (£356m).

"Without changes, the hospital system would collapse," the French president said. "We need to rethink how we organise healthcare for the next 50 years."}

Mr Macron may have a bit of a struggle but guess what, it's going FORWARDS.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 16:05

That's civil service / military ... and only if you are sufficiently senior

Data handling breaches - re the firm's own confidential data, not of customers' data - would be a serious disciplinary / sacking offence everywhere I've worked the last 40 years

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 16:08

If they are going to leak info, could we request it is typed nicely please?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 16:12

Bringing the maintenance forward will cost millions, as it is not in the usual planning schedule
However, they scoped, planned and decided it is the option for them that minimises risk / exposure

Of course, they are an example of a firm who would be pissed at the waste of their money, if the govt suddenly U-trns to soft or even no Brexit
"yoohoo, just kidding, we meant this all along, what a laugh, eh !"

That's a major reason why some firms are doing nothing until the gov actually announces no deal,
by which time it could be far more expensive / impossibly late for them

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 16:20

Brexit is like war.

All sorts of low life scum are going to use it to their advantage. From looting the bombed out houses, right the way up to huge mark-ups and (if possible) selling to both sides.

Enough to put you off sausages ....

DarlingNikita · 18/09/2018 16:32

Yes, there might be a lot of English people who wished to migrate to Scotland if it managed to get back in the EU. I'd have sympathy if they were Remainers.

I am a Remainer and have Scottish parentage. I would definitely claim my Scottish passport if it became independent and remained in the EU. I've lived in Glasgow before. It's a nice city if a bit small It'd be better than post-Brexit Little fucking England anyway.

prettybird · 18/09/2018 17:11

Iirc, the plan was to allow all people up to descendants of Scottish born grandparents Scottish passports if they wanted them - and to allow dual citizenship if that's what they wanted. And anyone living in Scotland at the time of independence, no matter where they were born (on the electoral register?), could claim Scottish citizenship. Smile

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 17:25

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45561527

A no-deal Brexit would make it harder to protect UK citizens, a leading police officer has warned.

(contd).

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 17:34

From DGR's link
This is Britain and everything is alright.
Another team is examining what new pressures o- policing a hard Brexit might create

These might include transport disruption and changes in patterns of crime and disorder

Transport 'disruption' for the 6 weeks most businesses are planning for Shock Petrol strike left us with 3 days food left, after a week.

I wonder if Scottish citizenship application would give extra points for being in a 'traditional' Glaswegian junior school in the 1960s-70s? Smile
Tempting to go for a long stay there, that's for sure, I agree, DarlingNikita

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 17:44

So, from that report. If the police have serious suspicions about someone, where are they going to put them for a couple of months or more?
To be held 'under suspicion' for 6 days is one thing but possibly 2 months and as was also reported 1500 people a year.
Miscarriage of justice springs to mind.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 18:22

changes in patterns of crime and disorder

Euphemism for "forced to steal food" Angry

Might be worth trawling through the laws that have been rushed through. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of power to remove children from their "unfit" mothers and be sold on for adoption

We know where this is going, because we know where it came from.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 18:22

So, from that report. If the police have serious suspicions about someone, where are they going to put them for a couple of months or more?

I'm sure some of our older NI posters could tell us Sad

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 18:34

The MN 'debate' is reviewed in the Guardian.
First comment afterwards:

Bit unfair on Laura K to be fair. Mumsnet is a boiling over pan of looniness.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 18:46

It's not that our rights aren't violated enough already ...

The UK government breached human rights rules
by failing to ensure proper oversight of its mass surveillance programmes, according to the European Court of Human Rights

This is ECHR, not the ECJ
< btw, I wonder if May is confused about what the ECJ does - most Brexiters are >

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/13/humanrightsscourtslamssukgovssnoopingg_regime/

The case – which joined together three separate challenges – considered three aspects of the UK's spying laws:

the regime for bulk interception of communications (under section 8(4) of RIPA);
the system for collection communications data (under Chapter II of RIPA);
and the intelligence sharing programme.

The first two were found to breach the convention, while the latter did not.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 18:59

Spiegel: The EU Commission to recommend tomorrow that the UK be sued in the ECJ for €2.7 bn
related to tax fraud on Chinese shoes & textiles during 2011 - 2017

This is another step in a long-running case that the EU are clearly going to continue
afaik, Brexit won't stop a court case that has already started

This case illustrates why the EU demand clear legal text, monitoring and consequences for the UK.
The UK authorities were incompetent and / or turning a blind eye to tax fraud on a massive sacel

Sorry, no English version
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/eu-kommission-beraet-ueber-klage-gegen-grossbritannien-a-1228760.html

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 19:00

tax fraud on a massive scale

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 18/09/2018 19:11

Crossover Day – when the Leave majority will disappear, even if not a single voter changes their mind about Brexit – will now be in January, according to a sensational YouGov poll.

Peter Kellner, the former president of the polling firm, said the Leave majority was now declining by 1,350 a day, due solely to demographic changes - older, mainly Leave, voters dying, while teenagers, who are mainly Remain, reach voting age.

He said he now expected Crossover Day to be January 19, plus or minus a few weeks.

He said: "It is now highly likely that if Brexit goes ahead on March 29, it will be on the basis that – again, assuming that not a single voter has changed their mind

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/poll-sensation-britain-will-be-an-anti-brexit-country-by-january-2019-1-5699935

Yaralie · 18/09/2018 19:13

A great deal of sense spoken at the Liberal Democrat conference- but did you hear it reported by the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation? - thought not.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 19:17

BMW news follows on from their announcement in March:

remember this ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-bmw/staff-levels-at-bmws-dutch-mini-assembly-plant-to-overtake-uks-idUSL5N1GZ4GG

BMW’s X1 model will be built in the Netherlands, boosting staff levels at Mini’s contract manufacturer VDL Nedcar beyond those at the German carmaker’s plant in Oxford, England, where the Mini hatch is made.
Harald Krueger, BMW’s Chief Executive, said ... that more production could move to the Netherlands depending on the outcome of Britain’s negotiations to leave the European Union.
< after a few years no deal, possibly only the luxury vehicles with the highest prices & profit margins will remain >

BMW has 4,600 staff working in Oxford, while VDL currently employs 4,500 staff. Both plants produce the Mini. Adding production of the X1 in August will boost Dutch staff numbers to more than 5,000, marking a sharp rise from only 1,500 in 2012.

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 19:22

Just caught 30 seconds of cable's speech on itv yaralie

Party to watch out for...

Swipe left for the next trending thread