Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 14:09

Vince Cable made me shudder, causing me to visualise certain Brexiters having "erotic spasms" Envy < NOT envy>

"For the ‘true believers’ – the fundamentalists – the costs of Brexit have always been irrelevant.

Years of economic pain justified by the erotic spasm of leaving the European Union.

Economic pain felt – of course – not by them by those least able to afford it ..."

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 14:10

I don't want to play martial law Top Trumps

Could that be the surprise novelty game of 2018 ?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 14:17

After all the promises of sunlit uplands, we're now trying to console ourselves about what the effects might be;

. there should be emergency stockpiles of food & essential meds avalable
. the military can distribute them and if they haven't the capacity then the EU military would rally round and make mercy drops < the Luftwaffe love-bombing London ? >
. it won't be a Mad Max distopia
. probably not martial law
. some factories will stay open (until they can't)
, the pound devaluing has stopped many E27 immigrants wanting to come
. it'll stop the fascists gaining power
. should see the benefits in 50 years
.....
Westministenders can add more positive points they find

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 14:29

It won't be called martial law, that is for sure. Brexit Freedom Plans perhaps?

On Faisal Islam's report.
"Shows a big company planning for a no deal.....the 6 week time period; it's interesting that that sort of time period for stockpiling food and medicine, is what I am hearing from major industry sources....... which is about constraints and blockages in the channel tunnel...... which means it's effectively not working....., after which they would expect a 2 week emergency negotiation period. This is highly unusual, costing millions and a major contingency."

So that's April through to mid May of 'stoppages' followed by 2weeks emergency negotiations through till start of June, being planned for by major companies.

twitter.com/n_w789/status/1042026781384089600

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 14:31

I wonder what weather March 2019 will bring ? A repeat of this year could see a terrible rise in deaths from cold.

PineappleSunrise · 18/09/2018 14:33

In the meantime, more economic analysis - this time from Oxford Economics, commissioned by the government's Migration Advisory Committee - attempting to point out to pigheaded Britons that EU immigrants have been CONTRIBUTING to the public purse, not sponging off it:

www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

From the exec summary:

"European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

The study finds that

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult. In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero."

Why are EU citizens so good for the exchequer, you may ask? Because -as has been pointed out time and again - they tend to be highly skilled, higher rate tax payers of working age. NOT fruit pickers, though much of the media conversation has focused on that particular area because it fits the "low skilled people coming to steal our benefits" narrative.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 14:36

PineappleSunrise

yet it appears the Migrant Advisory Committee want more non-EU immigration ...

bellinisurge · 18/09/2018 14:36

While I would privately feel a modicum of evil fuzziness watching people who voted for this shit suffer, I'd be too busy keeping things as normal as possible for my dh and dd.
Keep feckin' calm and feckin' carry on.
I'll say it again ....Jesus.

HermioneGoesBackHome · 18/09/2018 14:39

I’m split between wanting to shout ‘I told you so!!’ at Leavers (and some head in the sand remainers) and being scared at the what the future holds.

I think it has been made worse by seen my (leave voting) PIL who looked bemused I wasn’t a british citizens after nearly 20 years in the country. And then proceed to tell me it wasn’t possible to believe a word of what any politicians or journalists was saying and tried to convince me that their ‘analysis’ was right whilst rejecting any facts (because that’s what the journalists say therefore it’s not true).

Someone in a previous thread was saying they will not forget nor forgive Leavers.
I’m not going to forgive if we end up with martial law etc... to fulfil a fantaisy if unicorns etc... even less so if they suddenly turn round to find ‘other reasons’ why we’ve end up with this mess that will have nothing to do with how THEY have voted.

And I think there will be quite a lot of people in the same boat.

jasjas1973 · 18/09/2018 14:41

So now BMW to shut down its Oxford plant in March April.....

but hey "fuck business eh!" who needs em.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 14:42

While I would privately feel a modicum of evil fuzziness watching people who voted for this shit suffer

You're only human (I take it Hmm Grin ?)

But we're back to boiling frogs again. It's a slow accumulation of things over time. And, most poignantly - and more unforgivably, it's much more likely to be their children suffering.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 14:43

Someone in a previous thread was saying they will not forget nor forgive Leavers.

(labouring a point) least of all their children or grandchildren ....

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 14:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2018 14:47

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
SKY sources: BMW to shut its Mini factory for a month immediately after Brexit - No Deal contingency

/1 Unions have negotiated a week on full pay and three weeks on “banked pay” for the post Brexit-day shutdown which is being attributed to disruption “in the event of a No Deal Brexit”

/2 Industry sources have expressed fears of an effective closure of the Channel Tunnel immediately after a No Deal Brexit lasting two weeks, and then it taking a further two weeks’ emergency diplomacy to reestablish free flowing supply lines

/3 It is its annual shutdown that has been brought forward from the summer - a first - at considerable expense..MY understanding from multiple sources is it is hoped that any disruption will clear up within 4 weeks - but that is judgement on any actual No Deal situation wont last

/4 And again for those saying this is made up - was announced to workers today.... and unions yesterday

Full Story:

news.sky.com/story/bmw-to-shut-mini-factory-for-a-month-after-brexit-day-sky-sources-11501360

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 18/09/2018 14:49

"it's much more likely to be their children suffering."
Which is why my dd is getting on the Irish Register of Foreign Births. So she has the choices these fuckers are taking away from their children.

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 14:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 14:52

If Gina Miller had announced she was standing for leader of the lib dems, this week might have been panning out differently. She would have been like a ballistic missile of the Remain centre ground.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 14:52

So she has the choices these fuckers are taking away from their children.

Not that they see it that way. And you can bet by the time their kids are aware of what they've lost, you won't find a single Leave voter in the county.

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 14:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bellinisurge · 18/09/2018 14:56

I have a mental list of people who flaunted their Brexit support on FB. Because I am such an open minded and open hearted person, they are still FB "friends".Wink

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 14:58

@IanDunt
Hard to make out the writing, but looks like May is discussing Commons vote for another referendum as a possible development which could be forced on her.

Westministenders: Conference Season
RedToothBrush · 18/09/2018 14:59

Politicalpics @ politicalpics
Manfred Weber MEP who had a meeting with Theresa May this morning seeing notes his aid was holding it appears Michael Gove was at the meeting to !!! seems a few lines from him. one wonders who is in charge !!

Ian Dunt @ iandunt
Hard to make out the writing, but looks like May is discussing Commons vote for another referendum as a possible development which could be forced on her.

Before this is misunderstood, May is trying to work out how likely she is to be forced into a vote on another ref. Not that there will be one.

And yes Gove...

Westministenders: Conference Season
OP posts:
1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 15:00

I wonder if the robots and machine tools of BMW have to go back to Germany for 'servicing and upgrades'?
Following which, 'oh dear the ferries are all full, they had better stay in Europe then'.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 15:13

Even large firms can't stay in limbo for long after Brexit
The slide may be maintenance to mothballing to decommissioning

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 15:17

btw, Honda - and maybe others - having their 4 weeks shutdown in April rather than summer:

it's fortunate that school Easter vacation is the first 2 weeks, but otherwise the move looks like scuppering some planned long summer vacations in the sun