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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 12:16

So that's all about playing political games and not losing votes to UKIP then, not standing by principles of what he believes is best for the country.

To be fair, the rise of UKIP has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 12:19

Had labour stuck to answering the '6 questions' then made a proper job of analysing what the Tories were proposing and appreciating that the unicorns have escaped, they SHOULD be following a 'Remain fully' track. Meanwhile they are actually just fiddling in the corner.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 12:25

It would be interesting to know which other 'world' events at the moment are actually Brexit related. The Hurricanes obviously not but there are other things that may be more than just coincidences.
It is difficult to imagine that ALL of the Brexit crap is down to a 'Tory squabble' alone. Not being in the UK now (thankfully) are any 'normal' MPs actually speaking out against Brexit or are they all busy hiding in the shed waiting for it all to blow over?

Mistigri · 18/09/2018 12:28

So that's all about playing political games and not losing votes to UKIP then, not standing by principles of what he believes is best for the country.

Fundamentally means that the current shadow cabinet are prepared to fuck over the country in the pursuit of power.

Interesting to see that he admitted to this (albeit with a hefty dose of spin).

Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2018 12:35

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Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 12:37

Well done mrs Flowers

I'm fucking fuming. I've been ignored as a carer by Labour 6/7 times now, that includes contacting MP multiple times and contacting the actual party. I've contacted my MP before a few years back and at least received a generic response but I wasn't a carer then.

Mistigri · 18/09/2018 12:43

Much the same as the actual cabinet then.

It would be nice to have an opposition rather than a bunch of fence-sitters who think that a recession is a fair price to pay for winning the next GE.

jasjas1973 · 18/09/2018 12:43

I don't want to give UKIP or some of the elements even further to the right any excuse to regain the ground that they have lost over the last year.
That's why I am anxious about another referendum and would much prefer a general election. But as I say, we'll keep all options on the table

Ukip voters haven't gone away! or lost any ground, they ve gained ground and now vote for the Tories! who are delivering brexit and quite likely a ukip brexit.
Labour should be fighting this extremism, not tacitly supporting it.

Hopefully at conference, this hopeless leadership will have to change policy.

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 12:46

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ClashCityRocker · 18/09/2018 12:54

jasjas yup.

The ideology of the former ukip voters hasn't changed. Its just they've now got a home in a party in power.

It's depressing, and totally arse about tit.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2018 13:00

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lonelyplanetmum · 18/09/2018 13:03

To be fair, the rise of UKIP has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK.

Is it the rise of UKIP- or a fear of their rise that has triggered the disaster.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 13:06

No Deal Brexit will cost Honda 'tens of millions' - but production will continue in Swindon

because moving the factory would cost them even more.
So they plan to suck it up

This is just what Leavers in Airbus and the car industry have gambled on

imo, other possibilities for Honda:
they find they can no longer sell at a profit
or they don't re-tool for the new models and the factory gradually just fades away .....

www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/16885423.no-deal-brexit-will-cost-honda-tens-of-millions-but-production-will-continue-in-swindon/

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 13:10

The real disaster has been:

the Tory party abandoning principles and tacking their policies purely to head off UKIP and their own batshit Ultras

Other conservative parties in Europe have not surrendered to the hard right so cravenly

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 13:31

@faisalislam
SKY sources: BMW to shut its Mini factory for a month immediately after Brexit - No Deal contingency

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 13:34

Regarding Honda and I suppose others with the likelihood of JIT being disrupted as well as the tariff hikes how many weeks will it be before they pull the rug out? Big business is not known for huge quantities of 'freebies'. 'Get a free Honda with 5 bags of Scottish oats'. Get it quick before Scottish independence.
Reading the 'comments' on these headlines is revealing how pathetic the 'leave' (presumably voters) are in terms of forward thinking.

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 13:35

Brexit news: Police draw up plans for riots and civil disorder if there is no deal

Contingency plans drawn up by police chiefs include the "real possibility" of calling on military assistance and preventing officers taking leave around the date of the UK's withdrawal in March 2019

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-deal-brexit-could-lead-13215877
On LBC now police talking about 'civil contingecies'
Martial law. I travelled round Turkey during martial law 1980s. Met some great people, but unpleasant regime.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 13:37

Honda (and others) may hang onto UK based plants with a hope that manufacturing costs will fall quite rapidly after Brexit, making them less unviable Hmm

Now why would manufacturing costs fall after Brexit ?

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 13:45

Can anyone else remember factories being closed for a month for a government decision?
I've always thought there should be a General Strike to stop this, I didn't expect the bosses to organise them..

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 13:47

I could imagine the RHD model production lines staying in the UK and LHD versions going to Europe. Then the UK can continue with it's 'Just Too Late' policy to serve the UK market and the few bits of the world that are also LHD.
Mr Hammond's speech the other day managed to fit several references that amount to cuts. Obviously checking out his thesaurus.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 13:50

The '3 men in a pub' video the other day pointed out that the average person in Mauritania would have to save up for something like 100 years or more to be able to buy a car. This is what the UK gov wants the UK to concentrate on.

bellinisurge · 18/09/2018 13:50

I've lived through martial law in another country. Keep in. Keep your head down.
Which is one of the reasons I prep. I also prep for more benign things like being snowed in and losing power briefly. Or losing a job. Or being unwell. I focus on the likely not the unlikely. Civil unrest just made it to the likely list.
Jesus.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2018 13:58

I've lived through martial law in another country.

DF says it can't be worse than Italy in 1944 (unless we start paying kids to collect live ammunition ?)

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 13:58

It is "Jesus' Bellini I remember walking round Istanbul after the 10pm curfew, with a Turkish speaking American friend who charmed the soldiers, if he hadn't ............I do not want my boys exposed to this shit.

The FLA march and farage's half hearted condemnation are incitement. This is the threat for their murderous brexit not being 'carried out'.
Bringing East Belfast to the whole island looks like the plan. Bastards.

bellinisurge · 18/09/2018 14:00

I don't want to play martial law Top Trumps but we are in the area of experience your DF mentioned @DGRossetti .
I seriously doubt it would get that bad here but I don't plan to be anywhere near a supermarket on Brexit day or in the week or so afterwards.