Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 17:09

The UK has become the village idiot

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 17:16

Yes, far too late for no deal prep, except emergency powers for essentials - food & meds

Fortunately, in 2004, the Labour govt passed the Civil Contingencies Bill, which grants the necessary Emergency Powers

  • I dread to think of what would happen without it already being on he statute books
BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 17:39

Many of the affected E27 businesses & orgs have read the EU preparedness notices, finished their scoping, their planning and are in the implementation phase
However, they have mostly planned for no deal and are mainly cutting out UK supply chains.

More difficult for Uk businesses to plan without UK govt info, as they naturally don't want to quit the UK
and their options are more complicated.
Also, they are under govt & public pressure to go along with the sunny uplands theme.

BUT a few Brexiter / idiot CEOs have sounded off that there is nothing to worry about over Brexit.
I'm thinking of Willy Walsh of BA and particularly any CEO who believed the fantasies of the Moggites, or ex-CBI chief Digby Jones.

If those responsible for running businesses are genuinely so cowardly / incompetent / politically biased
that they have done zilch, not even ordered scoping of the various consequences & options,
then I hope the shareholders hold them fully to acount later.

Of course, we should all hold the govt to account, if the economy crashes

ohmymimi · 17/09/2018 17:45

'Alumnae Of Christine Blasey Ford's High School Circulate Letter Of Support.
Ford's allegations against Brett Kavanaugh are "all too consistent with stories we heard and lived while attending Holton," they wrote.'
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/christine-blasey-ford-holton-arms-brett-kavanaugh_us_5b9fb3c2e4b04d32ebfabbc6

ohmymimi · 17/09/2018 17:47

Sorry, wrong threadBlush
(But it is an interesting development)

Hazardswan · 17/09/2018 19:10

Thrown my questions and comments in the John McDonnell mumsnet webchat ring.

I was well behaved and managed not to swear Grin I rewrote several times

Waste of time labour love to ignore me lol.

prettybird · 17/09/2018 19:22

I expect to get platitudes if I get answered at all in response to my question Hmm

I was going to ask why Labour had become an irrelevance in Scotland but managed to force myself to ask a less loaded more neutral question. Wink

falcon5 · 17/09/2018 20:09

Hi sorry I'm struggling to find the link to the brexit prediction with the timing of the big run in January. I've seen it referenced before and really want to read it but I couldn't find it on thread can someone link please?

frumpety · 17/09/2018 20:16

prettybird have sent you a gin related question via PM Smile

woman11017 · 17/09/2018 20:31

Sorry, wrong threadblush
Flowers to for that thread though.Smile
What are the Emergency Powers bigchoc
Bracing reading in this article. Passed by labour after petrol strike and foot and mouth.
www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/09/sweeping-powers-civil-contingencies-act
Something that worries me, is soldiers and police who do not know their families are safe. That usually causes problems.

ohmymimi · 17/09/2018 20:45

Thanks, woman, I do follow these Westminstenders threads, and so appreciate themFlowers

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 21:54

Evening Standard:The Chequers plan just doesn’t add up with MPs

The ES (George Osbourne) doesn't think enough MPs would vote for it

(However, that's moot, since the EU wouldn't agree to Chequers anyway as it stands; hence there won't be a WA without agreeing to the EU terms)

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-the-chequers-plan-just-doesn-t-add-up-with-mps-a3937601.html

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 22:03

woman The govt does not need parliamentary permission if it invokes the Civil Contingencies Act

  • which gives it Emergency Powers -
but after 30 days it needs Parliamentary approval to continue

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/36/contents

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jan/07/politics.terrorism

the government has tightened its definition of an "emergency" to make clear
the new powers cannot be triggered by an event which merely threatens the "political, administrative or economic stability" of the country.
< so only to ensure the distribution of essential supplies - food, meds, power - not JIT components >

Critics had worried that this could be used by a future government to protect its own status, no matter the level of public dissent.
...
The bill will confer sweeping authority on ministers to do almost anything that once an emergency has been declared.
According to the Guardian, its poses "potentially the greatest threat to civil liberty that any parliament is ever likely to consider".
...
"The powers available to the government and state agencies would be truly draconian.
Cities could be sealed off,
travel bans introduced
all phones cut off,
and websites shut down.
Demonstrations could be banned
and the news media be made subject to censorship.
New offences against the state could be "created" by government decree.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 22:06

Remember: Labour created this law
Did they ever imagine that Boris, Mogg, the most batshit Tory hard rightwing could be the ones to use it ?
Always look ahead

woman11017 · 17/09/2018 22:09

Yes it's 'bracing' BigChoc In 2004 long long long ago..........
The director of Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti, said that the government had responded to most of the group's concerns over the civil liberties implications of the bill, particularly by tightening the definition of an emergency

However, Ms Chakrabarti warned: "This is a statute that is likely to sit around for years to come and we have to remember not just what might be done by a future government with good intentions, but we have to provide for a possible government with less good intentions

SwedishEdith · 17/09/2018 22:09

Pete North after watching Treeza's latest video - I've not bothered but can imagine the ever-so earnest tone. Isn't PN basically saying what these threads have been saying for months?

If this had the slightest chance of working and were it grounded in reality I would be backing Mrs May all the way - but it's basically a set up to make the EU look bad by demanding the impossible and dressing it up as a reasonable offer. It's a decoy.Pete North added,

  1. This feels like there isn't even an honest attempt to engage in the details not least because she is lying about the EEA option and Norway requiring a customs union. She is taking us for fools. She can only get what she wants by staying in EEA but repeats the lies about it.
  1. My assumption is that EEA is off limits because of interests in the City wanting financial deregulation - not least capital adequacy rules. Since she cannot split the single market and has been told so, she has invented Chequers pretending she can have her cake and eat it.
  1. Despite having been told a number of times by Brussels that she can't do this the party keeps up the pretence that there is a genuine attempt at a deal, and bizarrely so does the media. It's like Brussels doesn't even exist.
  1. At the end of the video, May then tells us that the UK has evolved its position - which is another lie - and then tells us the ball is in the EU's court. This is deflection. It's up to her to come up with a workable solution and she can't.
  1. There is also a shift of rhetoric promising us the ppriority is to get a deal - moving away from "no deal is better than a bad deal" to make it seem like there is a sincere effort. I really don;t think there is. She's setting up an impossible position and seeking to blame EU.
  1. So in the Tory party power struggle, it really doesn't matter who wins the day or if Mrs May does indeed "chuck chequers" because the effect is much the same. It's just a question of which miscreant you want as captain of the ship as it sinks beneath the waves.
  1. Having convinced themselves we can leave without a deal and stitch up a quilt of mini deals they don't have the same sense of urgency as the rest of us - and since Tories know nothing about anything they think its all scaremongering. They have no idea what's going to hit them.
  1. And though we have conference season coming up and the media will gorge itself on trivia, nothing is going to change in the next few weeks and I will be writing this exact same thread in a hundred days time - assuming I don't just give up and post raccoon gifs instead.
woman11017 · 17/09/2018 22:10

From same article.
Tony Bunyan, the editor of Statewatch, was less enthused, saying: "The limited concessions made by the government in no way change the fundamental objections to this bill

The powers available to the government and state agencies would be truly draconian. Cities could be sealed off, travel bans introduced, all phones cut off, and websites shut down. Demonstrations could be banned and the news media be made subject to censorship. New offences against the state could be "created" by government decree

This is Britain's Patriot Act. At a stroke democracy could be replaced by totalitarianism

woman11017 · 17/09/2018 22:14

This is getting much more violent. FLA and Batten today. Not reported on BBC that I can see.
news.sky.com/story/ukip-leader-gerard-batten-criticised-by-nigel-farage-for-endorsing-anti-muslim-rally-11500884

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 22:21

UKIP is turning into the Dad's Army section of the EDL.

In fact, it looks like the Democratic Football Lads Alliance.is just the new EDL with wider reach
Like a snake shedding its skin, DFLA is emerging and leaving the old EDL behind

We know things are getting extreme when we read this gem:

"Nigel Farage warned that Mr Batten needs "to be careful what company he keeps". Hmm

woman11017 · 17/09/2018 22:29

You believe farage? It's richard thirdy, again. As in the Shakespeare version.

woman11017 · 17/09/2018 22:33

tbh BigChoc it's the waiting game. This is being called the Grace period? I'm just wondering if they'll activate the emergency powers suddenly before March 2019. The October deadline, is maybe the end of the line, rather than March?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 22:42

"Mr Batten has recently suggested the former EDL leader Tommy Robinson should join UKIP."

Well, that's out in the open:
UKIP trying to get far right members - because many from the EDL would follow Robinson / Yaxley-Lennon into UKIP if he joined

The initial respectable start & intentions of the original UKIP founder (NOT Farage) have long been perverted and subverted:

UKIP evolved from the Anti-Federalist League, founded in 1991 by LSE professor of history, Alan Sked, who is a centrist and a former Liberal Party candidate
He tried to ban the far right from joining UKIP, but eventually resigned the leadership in 1997 saying

"They are racist and have been infected by the far-right."
and
"UKIP is even less liberal than the British National Party (BNP)

So, UKIP have been continuing along this far right path for over 20 years now

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 22:46

However, the Tory Party looks ripe for takeover

it has a party machine, experienced staff and national infrastructure that could take the far right much more quickly to power than the notoriously ramshackle and amateur UKIP organisation

Infiltration / perversion of the Tory Party has been ongoing a long time, since the 1980s

woman11017 · 17/09/2018 22:49

I think the farage doth protest too much.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2018 22:50

woman Looking at the Act, it can only be invoked under certain emergency circumstances, which imo would not happen before Brexit:

"the new powers cannot be triggered by an event which merely threatens the "political, administrative or economic stability" of the country."

As we have seen, the govt is still subject to the courts.
Any PM who thinks about going outside the law would think of their future criminal trial, sit back and create / wait for the emergency to happen from 1 April