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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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borntobequiet · 17/09/2018 11:45

Morocco seems to be on it (solar power)
www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/04/morocco-to-switch-on-first-phase-of-worlds-largest-solar-plant

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 11:56

Morocco seems to be on it (solar power)

Hmm

Desert complex will provide electricity for more than 1 million people when complete, helping African country to supply most of its energy from renewables by 2030

"when complete"
"1 million people"
"most"
"2030"

are the words I saw. Cynic that I am, I decided to educate myself, so ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco

Population c. 35, 000,000

So where are the other initiatives that will supply the other 97% of the country ? (Assuming (a) population remains stable; and (b) no increase in energy demand per person ....)

Buteo · 17/09/2018 11:57

I accidentally turned on the TV (well I sat on the remote) at about 7.30am this morning to see Farage in a shouting match with the editor of the New European - to be fair it was the NE man doing most of the shouting to point out Farage’s lies and drivel. Was quite entertaining in a WTF way.

borntobequiet · 17/09/2018 11:58

It's a start...

Peregrina · 17/09/2018 12:00

The New European was only initially going to publish for a few weeks. The fact that it's still going after 2 1/4 years must tell you something.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 12:00

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/219905

If there is no agreement to leave the EU then brexit must be stopped

(11,291 signatures)

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 12:06

(file under "what they say" and "what they do")

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/17/quantum_underfunding/

The UK Treasury has decided that £80m is perfectly sufficient to support quantum research – a quarter of a billion less than what was asked for.

(contd)

Unless it turns out Arlene & co. are undercover quantum researchers ?

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 12:14

Brummies whinging now, I see:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45525625/birmingham-s-brexit-concerns

As a Londoner condemned to life without parole in Birmingham, I'm finding it hard to engage with that one.

1tisILeClerc · 17/09/2018 12:15

I would imagine quite a few on the fringes of the Sahara would like the opportunity for jobs, food and stability. Make that a deal and fewer will want to travel the thousand or so miles to a cold wet island.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 12:23

I would imagine quite a few on the fringes of the Sahara would like the opportunity for jobs, food and stability.

Rather than imagine, maybe ask them ? I think "imagining" what people want has caused far more misery than actually asking, and then giving them what they want Hmm

One of the biggest insults of colonialism is the dressing up of theft pure and simple as somehow "benefitting" the indigenous populations. Most, if not all of who probably wanted to be left alone Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 17/09/2018 12:33

Since the UK has either inadvertently or deliberately chosen a path of 'not as bad as the black death' I suppose it is a god question.

Icantreachthepretzels · 17/09/2018 13:17

Another Chalet School fan here - though Richard Madden is leaving me cold.
Much as I wanted to go boarding school I wanted even more to be Madge still do and set up my own school. She can keep Dr. Jem though.
Re: solar panels: Didn't we also used to have a govt funded incentive to get them? Loads of houses had them when I returned from uni one holiday and when I asked wtf was going on my parents said there was some kind of scheme so people jumped on the bandwagon. The scheme was then discontinued - and now their houses look ridiculous - and don't get a nice even snow coverage on the roof.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 13:29

Re: solar panels: Didn't we also used to have a govt funded incentive to get them? Loads of houses had them when I returned from uni one holiday and when I asked wtf was going on my parents said there was some kind of scheme so people jumped on the bandwagon. The scheme was then discontinued - and now their houses look ridiculous - and don't get a nice even snow coverage on the roof.

Yes. Renewable energy became another nice little scam to milk the system. Get everyone to pay that bit more for their electricity, while some naice middle-class folk can rake it if for putting inefficient eyesores on their houses (and good luck to any future buyers). Net contribution to the grid .... who the fuck knows ? (Well, www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ says generally they're in negative equity ..)

If renewable energy is going to be any good, it shouldn't need subsidies (which also goes for nuclear, by the way. What's sauce for the goose ...).

Now if all the work for domestic solar energy in the UK had focussed on the much more efficient (but not possible to milk) water heating systems (works even when photovoltaic doesn't ...) I would have believe there was a serious drive towards renewable energy in the UK. But as it was (and thank god it was scrapped) the only renewing going on was directors bonuses.

In the places where renewable energy is being exploited, it's without a middle layer of leeching companies that are basically being paid by the taxpayer.

bellinisurge · 17/09/2018 13:41

Switch off and switch on again. A classic IT move when you have no idea what to do and hope that'll solve it. Not the best move to fix stuff that has been flushed down the loo.

1tisILeClerc · 17/09/2018 13:43

Having both water and PV systems myself, I was more impressed by water heating. The fact it can make an impact on your heating bills while you have snow on the roof is encouraging.
Solar PV works a lot better in the South.
You have to treat both as a long term investment. PV typically takes 7-8 years to break even. Hot water enabled the backup boiler to be switched off from about late April to late September.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 13:57

Having both water and PV systems myself, I was more impressed by water heating. The fact it can make an impact on your heating bills while you have snow on the roof is encouraging. Solar PV works a lot better in the South.

So solar PV in the Uk was just a snouts in trough scheme ....

1tisILeClerc · 17/09/2018 14:12

Considering it was my money, no. It was a substantial personal investment. It could be viewed as helping my pension provision in that some electricity would become 'free' after the payback period.
It also helps those who can't be arsed to turn off lights and TVs because it reduces the amount that needs to be generated.
It would have been more productive if the government didn't have their fingers in the pie holding things back.
It does have the impact of making you consider how much waste there is in 'modern' society. Having solar heated water to use in washing machines/dishwashers would be a significant boost, but the range of machines available for dual fill is very limited.

Yaralie · 17/09/2018 14:13

he Renewable Heat Incentive scandal (RHI scandal), also referred to as RHIgate and the Cash for Ash scandal, is a political scandal in Northern Ireland that centres on a failed renewable energy incentive scheme that has been reported to potentially cost the public purse almost £500 million.

The plan was overseen by Arlene Foster of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), the then-Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Investment, who failed to introduce proper cost controls, allowing the plan to spiral out of control. The scheme worked by paying applicants to use renewable energy. The rate paid was more than the cost of the fuel, however, and thus many applicants were making profits simply by heating their properties.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal

Snouts in trough maybe in NI, thanks to Arlene Foster who is propping up this brexit government.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2018 14:17

Considering it was my money, no. It was a substantial personal investment.

But aren't you in France ? Different type of scamsters there ...

1tisILeClerc · 17/09/2018 14:18

Indeed there was a case highlighted a few years back where a barn, usually used for cattle has a huge heating system fitted and the farmer could claim a ridiculous amount of money to heat an empty barn.
In the UK however it is largely a risky version of an ISA or other savings scheme. Risky in that if panels get damaged or the invertor fails it is a significant amount of the 'profit'.

1tisILeClerc · 17/09/2018 14:20

I am. It was nailed to the house so it stayed in England.

thecatfromjapan · 17/09/2018 14:22

Just popping in to congratulate lonelyplanetmum on her question for John McDonnell. Smile

lonelyplanetmum · 17/09/2018 14:29

Thank you. I regret it being too long and ranty. That's me!

I wish I'd just asked. How different does he think the position would be in now, if Labour had not supported the government for the past 24 months?