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Brexit

Westministenders: Back to School

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/08/2018 13:01

No, I'm not referring to the start of a new parliamentary season, I'm referring to the number of politicians who need to literally go back to school. Its embarassing, and worrying.

Anyway, here is a slightly lengthy, end summer news round up for you.

The Brexit Headlines
It seems to be Cabinet Office policy to push for the Chequers Deal or for No Deal Even though Macron has very firm, plainly and clearly said "non" in no uncertain terms. Its significant because its come from the official Brexit Department and not from a sweating Dominic Raab at Dexeu.

He has however delivered the first batch of the Brexit Untechnical Papers which are supposed to advise what to do in the event of No Deal. In reality this is a PR exercise, which makes the assumption that some sort of minimual deal will have been done, rather than no deal at all, combined with a very practical plan for 'a wing and a prayer'. Which is a bit of an issue if we decide that we really are going to stick to the line that its Chequers or no deal.

These untechnical papers are ludicarious shallow, which some having the audaciency to say "plan for the news rules, but we haven't actually decided what the news rules are and we'll get back to you as soon as we've made them up". The completely skirt the entire subject of NI, saying merely, more or less "oh that one will just work itself out". Despite the untechnical papers don't include the crucial aviation one, which apparently was held back because it was regarded as 'too shambolic' which is quite the statement, if you've read any of them. Nor do they include details of the contract for hundreds of portaloos to line our motorways so that lorry drivers can still take a pee whilst they are stuck in queues for days. They might starve and no one else will have any food because all the lorries are stuck, but hell they'll be no exposure on the M20 to offend you.

Its not quite as bleak as it sounds though. The Chequers Deal is a vision of our future relationship with the EU. Its not the Withdrawal Deal. And the Withdrawal Deal (and backstop) is the thing that needs to be done in Oct / Nov. Which then will lead on to talks about the Chequers Deal. You can't talk about Chequers without having ALREADY agreed the Withdrawal. Which is very important to keep in mind as its continuely being lost in the media coverage. Could it be that all the sudden noise from the Cabinet Office, is an attempt to distract in the short term to protect the Withdrawal phrase?

Also as an alternative to Chequers, Macron is reportedly expected to propose something akin to an 'associate member' style agreement for the UK with a vision for the EU and its allies to form a series of "concentric circles", with Britain closely tied to the 27 "core" EU member states. If this sounds familiar it is. Guy Verhofstadt has been banging on about this as an idea since before Brexit. Its also a plan which has long been muted by Barnier too. It will probably go down like a lead balloon here, but there is a political will in the EU for a deal. There just isn't in the UK.

More generally in UK politics
Jeremy Corbyn has had a nice relaxing summer but after the hard upcoming weeks ahead, I think he'll still be looking forward to his holiday plans for the Autumn Break, when he visits Israel to profess he's still definitely not an anti-semite, because look he's visiting the evil Zion and talking to Jews. He will spend the next few month telling us that No Deal is a Very Bad Idea, whilst also trying to get his MPs to vote in ways that are a Very Bad Idea. Meanwhile the rest of Labour will indulge in a very public slanging match which most normal people have long since stopped caring about in anyway because they are so bored and disappointed in how far heads have been inserted up backsides.

Theresa May, has been in Africa, where she is trying to get trade deals with lots of countries we already have trade deals with through the EU. She's also in the midst of a fight with Spreadsheet Phil who has been busy telling her to butt out of the budget and realising information to undermine the 'No Deal' narrative all week. Oh and trying to persuade beg Mark Carney to stay another year at the BoE cos no one wants his job. Rees-Smug has been up to his usual English Gentleman Act where he replicates the MPs of the Victorian Era who were into fucking those from the colonies whilst stripping them for asserts, with impecable manners. Boris Johnson is looking for his next photo op where he can look zany and drop a headline grabbing offensive comment. If it winds May up, so much the better. The Tory Creche outing to Birmingham looks like its going to be a scream.

I should say something about the LDs here, so here's a tumbleweed for you.

Back to Brexit
The fishing wars have started. Michael Gove has yet to be sighted in a souwester though (give it time). The Scallop Wars are an insight into why we need a relationship with the EU. It turns out that the French are pissed because we've been using these big fuck off ships which dredge the sea bed and are a ecological disaster and haven't observed a break for a 'breeding season' this year, whilst the French are forced to do so by law. We had been observing an informal agreement where we stick to the same rules, but for some reason this year, some bright spark though it was a bad idea for us to do so. So the French have got a bit shirty in response. Gove is spitting the dummy and saying we will do something. The reality? Well what exactly can we do apart from go to the EU and use the EU courts apart from patrolling the seas with a lot of customs boats and officials we don't have? Cod Wars III here we come!

We've also announced plans for brand new white whale money pit satellite to circle solely over the UK. We aren't in need of coverage for the rest of the world, so we aren't going to waste money on flying over anywhere else who isn't prepared to help contribute financially to its construction. It is going under the draft name of 'Heliocentre'

In other news
If none of this cheers your spirits, then great news; Good Old Nige is making a come back!!! He's dead excited because he's planning his first big Nazi Leave means Leave rally in Bolton where he act out his childhood Hitler fantasy. It'll a cost you a fiver to get in. He's also bored and worried about his income, as he's now considering getting pasted in the London Mayoral Election for the publicity. So soon his face will be back on your TV boxes for Questiontime. Are you all so happy.

I rather suspect the Greens won't be objecting and will be only too happy they aren't getting the publicity they deserve as the 4th biggest party at the moment...

So the Summer is over and normal service is resuming. I hope you have enjoyed the rest and this post brings you a little up to speed. We have Party Conferences to look forward to in the upcoming weeks. Won't that be a joy to behold? And the resumption of shooting ourselves in the face in EU talks.

Oh and don't forget that Trump fellow too. Its all starting to look a bit tasty over there ahead of the November elections. What happens there in the next couple of months might be very important to what happens over here.

Who is excited?!

I am just dancing to the sound of the South African Beats.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
SusanWalker · 07/09/2018 10:10

Catherine Feore
Catherine Feore
@OrpheusEU
Rumours that British Conservative MEPs have been instructed to vote against Sargentini report to launch the Article 7 procedure against Hungary next week, in exchange for a sympathetic ear from Orban/
#Hungary
on
#Brexit
. Off-the-record, some are 'Very uncomfortable' with this.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2018 10:19

Another reason the E27, well 25-26 of them, will be glad in some ways to be rid of the UK:
they will find it much easier to tackle Orban and his fascists

DGRossetti · 07/09/2018 10:25

^I don't believe that the Lib Dems fill the void, if they did, they would have
won more seats. Unfortunately they are cursed by their own stupidity.^

As in going into coalition in 2010 ? For me that was a clear signal that they were prepared to forsake popularity for the sake of the country.

However they should have been much more savvy that they'd be stitched up by the Tories.

It's only since the 2015 election we realise what a mountain of shit they were holding back.

All of that said, Liberals/LibDems are essentially descended from the Tories anyway. We lack a truly centrist party - and always have done.

Part of the genius of Tories gone by has been to hoodwink the public into thinking "Liberal" is really a synonym for "Labour" when it's much closer to "Tory". If there were any justice, the right-wing vote would have been permanently split and we should have had decades of Labour governments.

All of which is moot now. The LibDems aren't even the answer to the question "what party has Vince Cable as it's leader" anymore. Let alone the UKs current problems.

Hazardswan · 07/09/2018 10:27

woman I won a book? Ooo.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 07/09/2018 10:28

Fucking hell susan
That's appalling whatever their excuses are.

woman11017 · 07/09/2018 10:52

I hope I read it right Hazardswan but I think so.Smile

woman11017 · 07/09/2018 10:57

For info, folks. I can't of course guarantee them, but I see Neil is backing the usual, as usual, even though the latest polls seem to have SD losing points.

@AuroraBlogspot
These accounts give reliable info about the general election in Sweden:
@carlbildt - former Swedish PM
@anderslindberg - editor-in-chief of 'Aftonbladet'
@ChrChristensen - professor of Journalism
@Expressen - Swedish newspaper.

Rosstac · 07/09/2018 11:02

jasjas1973 And don’t forget opened the floodgates to uncontrolled immigration that eventually led to the Brexit vote

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2018 11:16

I rather think that what people are fed up of is popularism and political short cuts.

Blair got in and promised a lot of stuff. And in stead of doing things properly and sorting out problems, he took short cuts and made fudges - PFI being the best example but not the only one. Shiny happy looking policies that people liked, because they did well of them. But he also kicked difficult decisions down the road because they were unpopular and didn't win votes.

Remember here, that Blair had the biggest majority for years - he COULD (and should) have made unpopular decisions domestically, and got away with it.

Instead he made one REALLY big unpopular decision, which did a lot to destablise global politics in the long term. And thats the one he's remembered for.

And he made one HUGE mistake that no one really noticed and blamed on his successor. He didn't show due dilegence over the banking system in the UK - and let the banking sector expose itself to, to much high risk debt.

So 2008 comes along and Brown is stiffed with the financial crash - which of course played a significant role. He tries make some tough decisions, some of which were right others of which, were a lot more dubious. But tough decisions are generally not popular decisions.

So along comes Cameron and Clegg and he offers some nice sweeties to the public, who lap them up without question. Cameron offers a solution to the problem by heaping the burden of sorting out the mess, on the poorest - because they didn't vote for him. And instead of making the difficult decisions that needed to be made, he found two nice little scapegoats. One called Nick and one called the EU.

So the can was kicked down the line.

And come the next election, Nick pays the price and David has the referendum on his hands.

Cameron continues with this austerity, which isn't terribly popular with some, but is very popular with all the people who voted for him. Great, they'll vote for him again. And any problems we got we can just blame on the EU. Or we can actively ignore, cos they don't win us vote. We can just pretend we don't need to build any houses because the NIMBYs who already own houses don't like it. We can ignore problems with the rental market because renters don't vote Conservative and Conservatives are all landlords.

And we kicked the can down the line.

So by now, we have a bunch of people who are pretty pissed off. Cos they have been shat on by austerity or they don't have houses and they've been told its all the EU's fault.

And look some shiny sweeties. The NHS.

So they kick the shit out of the popularists and demand that they get their sweeties.

Along comes Theresa May with a right wing government, not a centrist one.

And she decides to go along with the popularist backlash. Does all the things she thinks they want to hear. Except she's not listening properly. She isn't giving the NHS sweeties out. And she's not ending austerity. And she's certainly not sorting out the housing issue.

She's left with a problem in parliament. She hasn't got the numbers to do what she wants. So she makes a massive miscalucation and goes to the public, thinking she'll get a huge majority because she's offering them what they want in Brexit.

Except of course, she's not. And she's not accounted for party loyalty. And she dropped a clanger in an ill thought out plan for a deeply unpopular policy in the dementia tax.

So instead of looking like she was handing out sweeties, she looked like she was handing out cod liver oil pills.

And she got punished for it.

May didn't realise just how hooked on sweeties the public are. The public don't understand policy and that difficult decisions need to be made. And she isn't smart enough to understand the issues that need to be made anyway, because she so disconnected to the reality of the problems that people are facing day to day. And neither are any of her cabinet. They can't fix problems that they don't understand. They can't understand the problems because they are all millionaires who are incredibly insulated from problems relating to the basics of housing and putting food on the table.

She also doesn't really get popularism.

And she's squashed between Corbyn with his unreality sweeties and supporters who live in la la land and also don't really get a lot of the problems they say they do because they are so ridiculosy middle class its untrue. You have the bizarre specticle of him accusing the BBC and its journalists of being too privileged yet his own inner circle is every bit as bad and stuffed with middle class Oxford and Cambridge grads. Tellingly Corbyn's 2017 manifesto offered very little to those at the bottom of the income centiles and just was all about 'punishing the elite'. It wasn't about solving a problem - it was about using scapegoats as an easy solution to appear as if you are solving the problem.

And on the other hand, she has Johnson and Mogg offering sweeties to hard line leavers over the EU. They too are totally disconnected with the real problems underlying it all, but they don't care cos they see power and £££££ at the end of it. But they get to shout about immigration, British values and two world wars.

The problem is NOT that people are fed up with centre politics. It that they are so addicted to quick solutions and sweeties, that they aren't interested considering how you solve the problems. So popularists on the left and right have taken over from popularists in the centre.

So the idea of a popularist movement from the centre, just boggles my mind.

And the irony remains that if you want to sort out difficult problems you have to abandon idelogical beliefs and sit down and find actual solutions which take in considerations from both the left and the right. And look at who is going to suffer, and work to minimise that effect. And this by its very nature HAS to come from the centre.

Instead now, we have got to the point where the population, is looking for 'strong leaders' to effectively tell the opposition side saying things they don't want to hear, because its rather incapable with their own popularist agenda. They now want to 'silence' or 'get rid' of the people saying what problems are. Because if they do, they seem to think the problem will also magically disappear.

The desire to scapegoat, punish or blame is therefore getting stronger. And the ability to effectively resolve the underlying problems is getting work, because there is a reduction in transparency and discussion because everyone is too fucking scare to tell the truth to power.

The bottom line in all this, is whilst the public is so smacked up on political sweeties they'll chance them, because the politicians have failed to be adults and do whats best for the kids over a long period of time. The kids are now smack tramps, who will do anything for a fix.

Reality hasn't gone away. And we will hit an enormous crisis point. And that crisis point is coming at us fast, even though May is still trying to kick the can down the road.

The crisis point is about the total collaspe of local government. Its about Brexit, and all the system failures there. Its about the total failure of safeguarding protocols. Its about generational inequality. Its about a housing system that is geared up to investors not for people to have homes. Its about increasing wealth inequality and inequality of opportunity. Its about a massive shift in demographics and the consequences of this.

And no one is really addressing ANY of these issues. Because sweeties. Because, lets blame left and right. And some jews. And the Islamics. And the EU.

NO ITS YOUR FUCKING POLITICIANS OFFERING YOU CRACK RATHER THAN BEING GROWN UP AND DEALING WITH ISSUES THATS YOUR PROBLEM.

I am getting to the point of thinking that the picture that is emerging is once that leads to anarchy, regardless of Brexit and regardless of who wins the next election.

Why? Because the lack of political will to solve problems isn't there.

We've fallen into the trap of looking for heroes to save us. When reality we need saving from ourselves. If I look left or right, I see the potential for riots and food shortages and mass unemployment. I see the desire to use the law to now stop opportunites to find solutions, in favour of ideological purity. I see a loss of faith in media which is so catatrophic the truth has no meaning anymore, indeed the truth is a problem which must be hidden from sight and to speak it, is a crime. I see democracy which has died and all we are left with is a power struggle through intimidation and bullying. I see a country so divided it no longer has any sense of common interest, only interests of fragmated groups of like minded individuals who only talk to people who mirror them, and demonise those who do not conform to their group.

This all leads only to two things; a bloody revolution or a civil war of some description. Together with a large amount of very serious food shortages or medical shortages in the process.

And I'm having a really bloody hard time thinking of an alternative outcome.

There might well be one, but the direction of travel at the moment, isn't giving me much cause for hope, because no one - and I mean no one - has this idea of 'national interest above political self interest'.

OP posts:
jasjas1973 · 07/09/2018 11:18

jasjas1973 And don’t forget opened the floodgates to uncontrolled immigration that eventually led to the Brexit vote

Yes he did that but only delayed the inevitable by a few years.... as has been said on here numerous times, its the UK's long term thinking on training and development, our non contributory benefits system and our complete lack of knowing who comes in/out of the UK plus we dont enforce EU rules, because can't!!!

We can't even stop Russians on false ID's carrying a deadly nerve agent or radio active material from coming and going as they please

The point i'm making is that we are clamouring to stay in the EU yet to many people, if not the majority, the EU has not prevented the many ills that have befallen our country and staying in does not promise sunlit uplands or unicorns either.

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2018 11:26

www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/the-lib-dems-are-setting-up-a-momentum-for-moderates
The Lib Dems Are Setting Up A “Momentum For Moderates”
"The big problem is we don’t know what we are,” one Lib Dem source said.

The Lib Dems are a hotch potch of local resident grassroot groups, hardline TRA / sexual liberation types, pro-Europeanists desparate to stay in the EU, middle class suburban commuters who don't have much connection to a local area but have a distinct lifestyle and identity and a small group of pro-liberal democracy (small l, small d) advocates.

Its a mixed of aging old skool types, middle aged middle class professionals (with a high percentage in educational roles) and young militant types who are particularly pro-EU.

Thats why they are something and nothing.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 07/09/2018 11:29

The argument about whether we stay in or leave, does not solve our systematic political failure which we continually blamed on the EU.

That shit storm is landing regardless of whether we stay or leave.

But frankly, having the stability of staying is probably more preferable for when than shit hits, than the double whammy of unstability and political turmoil.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 07/09/2018 11:35

Theo Usherwood @theousherwood
EXCLUSIVE: Today Labour stands accused of failing to tell MPs when they have been threatened with violence.

It follows our story on Tuesday when we revealed the party had failed to report 21 potential race hate incidents and crimes to the police.

That brought accusations of a cover-up.

Today we can reveal party did not tell 10 if its own MPs if they had been victims of threats and abuse - most anti-Semitic - so they could report it to police.

[[threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037970883875356672.html]]
Full Thread.

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OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 07/09/2018 11:38

red 👏👏👏
Well bloody said.
apologies for my clearly sweary day

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2018 11:38

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037970883875356672.html

OP posts:
OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 07/09/2018 11:39

Massive cross post Blush

TheElementsSong · 07/09/2018 11:40

Goodness, the Brexit threads have been busy recently! If it wasn't such a bloody shitstorm, in which I and my loved ones are just as entwined, I'd be finding it almost funny - how angry the Leavers are, furiously hurling blame at everybody by themselves, as the Sunlit Uplands continue to elude them.

DGRossetti · 07/09/2018 11:43

We can't even stop Russians on false ID's carrying a deadly nerve agent or radio active material from coming and going as they please

Can't ? Or Won't ?

Call my cynical, but the Skripal affair hasn't really damaged Theresa May, has it ? Rather the reverse ... it's allowed her to strut the world stage briefly looking vaguely competent.

We already know that the security services aren't bound by the law, so it's not really too incredible to think that the quite excellent CCTV footage we are seeing - along with the rather precise itinerary - is because MIx not only met these guys at the airport, but drove them to Salisbury and drove them back to the airport afterwards.

The whole affair stinks to high heaven, and I know we'll never know the truth from any side.

Starting with it seems an unnecessarily elaborate way to bump someone off, when I am sure a Russian attache with a few hundred quid to burn could have tapped the local lowlife and arranged a simple "mugging gone wrong" incident - with a much more likely outcome of death for the victims. Even if the Russians wanted to test Novochik, I'm sure there are dark cells in the bowels of the country where wrong-thinkers are kept to this day for exactly such reasons ?

The whole affair reeks of some sick "game" all countries like to play on the world stage.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/09/2018 11:50

And she's squashed between Corbyn with his unreality sweeties and supporters who live in la la land and also don't really get a lot of the problems they say they do because they are so ridiculosy middle class its untrue.

I'm now middle class, who knew? I thought I was underclass being disabled and on benefits but if voting Corbyn makes me middle class I hope the DWP dont find a reason to sanction me for this Hmm

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2018 12:09

Have a look at hard core around Corbyn and his media cheerleaders...

OP posts:
woman11017 · 07/09/2018 12:38

Have a look at hard core around Corbyn and his media cheerleaders
It's like being ruled by a sort of weird royal family of men (the main political parties). from a very few universities, mainly doing the similar course of study, one sex, one colour, all running a show about which they have not a clue. And causing what they have already through so called 'austerity', and about to cause this.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/09/2018 12:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 07/09/2018 12:44

It's like being ruled by a sort of weird royal family of men (the main political parties). from a very few universities, mainly doing the similar course of study, one sex, one colour, all running a show about which they have not a clue.

That sentence has one word too many .... (although grammar pedants might suggest that removal of the word justifies the expansion of an abbreviation, so the overall word count remains the same Grin)

SchrodingersRat · 07/09/2018 12:48

A quick name change later... Swede living abroad here, here is my view on the Twitter accounts above:

@AuroraBlogspot
These accounts give reliable info about the general election in Sweden:
@carlbildt - former Swedish PM - A Moderate (= Swedish conservative). His commercial interests are interesting and while he is relatively well regarded internationally I wouldn't say he's squeaky clean when it comes to promoting trade over human rights
@anderslindberg - editor-in-chief of 'Aftonbladet' (the social democratic tabloid, think it's owned by the trade unions)
@ChrChristensen - professor of Journalism
@Expressen - Swedish newspaper. (the 'independent liberal' tabloid, the one marginally more like the Daily Mail out of the two)

woman11017 · 07/09/2018 12:49

SchrodingersRat Smile brilliant thank you. Any news?

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