Have your frienships and family relationships suffered as a result of Brexit?

[Wormzy]

Just that, really. If friends and/ or family members have clearly voted differently to you, has it changed the way you see them or interact with them? Have friendships broken down?

I haven't been able to vote, but the outcome of the vote affects me disproportionately. Family members have voted Leave. There have been arguments, also between friends, some ended in loss of contact.

I wonder how the Brexit vote has affected others on here?

Some very interesting comments in there @Megan.
I however think that the UK should have got MORE involved to help resolve the issues.
It is becoming obvious that change needs to happen and that Mr Macron and Mrs Merkel are now attempting to push that change.
I vaguely remember talk of a 2 speed EU, but I was not knowingly impacted and had better things to do than investigate. It is obvious that the likes of Greece will never reach the dizzy heights of high tech manufacture seen in Germany, and with a pragmatic approach it doesn't need to as Greece has strengths in other ways. Being 'economical' with the bookkeeping and failing to collect taxes was bound to cause a problem.
The world is also a more dangerous place than it was say 20 years ago in that with social media 'riots' can be whipped up almost spontaneously and the ability to get a message to anywhere on the planet is both a good and bad thing.
The USA is not a 'best buddy' and not is either Russia or China and all 3 are happy to bully those it does not approve of.
I don't think any remainers want the UK to fail and the point of these threads is to highlight, with verifiable information that the possibility of 'crashing out' will be catastrophic, but also that even the softer versions of leaving the EU will be very damaging. The prospect suggested by JRM that the UK will be 'great again' but it might take 50 years is ignoring the fact that the world is continuously evolving.
In 50 years , significant chunks of the UK will have succumbed to the sea and there is no knowing whether any country will have declared war on the UK, either in a troops on the ground or cyber or a mix.
Being a relatively small island that is not sufficient in food and depleted mineral resources, currently uneconomic to use, is hardly a good place to start from. The UK was OK, it is not 'special' and it certainly has no Empire.

@MeganBacon that's easily the best, most sensible argument I've seen yet. If some of the people I know who had voted leave had made ANY of the same points - or indeed even understood what they mean - then I wouldn't have lost respect for or been embarrassed by them.

Some of the arguments listed by MeganBacon might have been valid if May hadn't rushed A50 and said that we were going to make a considered review of the vote before invoking it.

What are these 'long term benefits'?

I'm not very comfortable to be seen as defending the leave position on this board - Choco 1234 asked me to explain the reasons Leavers discussed with me so I did. But Peregrina has asked what the long term benefits were (as presented to me by my friends/colleagues I assume), so here goes:
Agility and speed with which we can develop our own legislation - we are more able to respond and move with the times.
More bespoke legislation, e.g. to suit our industries rather than a one size fits all member states approach. This could mean more or less conservative approaches, so it's a judgement call if you consider this a pro or a con, but it was at least something our government would have control over.
Some don't believe that there are long term disadvantages to coming out of a trading bloc because we can develop more lucrative relationships with the rest of the world, in which case they are more focussed on the benefits above.

My Remain friends mostly based their decision on a belief that it would all be too complicated for relatively little benefit. One of my closest friends held this view but now believes that we are already so far into the pain that we may as well see it through, and says he would now vote Leave if there were a second referendum.
My friends/colleagues are more European focussed (through birth or work) than most, and many saw long term benefit in being far removed from a construct (they EU) they view as suboptimal.

It's all just a judgement call and that's why tempers are so frayed.

I know a lot about preparing legislation. We are not hide bound by EU.

@Megan
As 'reasons to leave, they have some merit. They are points that can be discussed and put some 'numbers' and investigate with logic to see whether they 'fly'. Some of them I feel would be brought down by sheer impracticality, suggesting the trade 'discounts' that the UK of 60 Million might get compared to the EU block of 500 Million for example.
There are also issues such as the way Westminster treats anywhere outside of London and the South East with such contempt. Industrial areas of the North and South west, with the original industry 'spent' are now largely abandoned.
Mr Macron, Mrs Merkel and others sound to be putting fresh impetus into EU reforms (long overdue) and I feel that if the UK had a vote option to remain with definite EU policy changes within (say) 4 years that it would have been a far better outcome. It will be interesting to see what Mr Macron proposes when he fleshes out his circles idea.
Had the UK actually stayed at the 'top table' and participated more wholeheartedly, rather than eying up the exit for so long, things would have been a lot better.

More bespoke legislation, e.g. to suit our industries rather than a one size fits all member states approach

The massive flaw with this logic has always been that we need to comply with EU legislation if we want to trade with our closest countries.

One size fits all is the cheapest option. Businesses can't afford to produce EU and non-EU versions of everything so will default to EU regulations.

Only now we have no say in those rules.

Well done.

Another flaw with this 'bespoke legislation' is that much of it ultimately derives from International bodies so the chances are that we would implement it anyway. The fact that no leaver has been able to tell us which legislation they object to is significant, I think. Nor do they seem to have the same problem with legislation emanating from the USA, and our input to that is zero.

Another factor is that much legislation is outside the authority of the EU - health, education, housing, to name three areas.

But at least, they were arguments, not just empty slogans.

A point I often make on these threads is that referring to EU law genetically can be misleading.It gives the impression all our laws are subject to EU influence.They are not.

I snapped at a neighbour the other night who confidently said he'd be able to get a rejected planning permission after we leave the EU. Planning is a classic example of entirely domestic legislation.

We and all member states agreed remit was only some common regulation in agriculture, environment. product safety and some basic employment rights.

France, Germany, Spain (and us) etc never suggested overall shared legislation.Defence, education, schools, universities, hospitals, NHS, elderly care, local government, defence, tax, inheritance, social care, disability benefits, fiscal policy, property, planning, criminal law, prisons, policing,marriage, children matters, family law, non EU immigration.

Generically not genetically- autocorrect.

Sorry if I was rambling. I just dislike any reference to EU legislation ( and therefore sovereignty) without putting it into it's accurate and limited context. When TM says ,as she frequently does, 'we are taking back control of our laws' she means shared food, agriculture and environmental regulation.

[Except we will have to not share but surrender control of these areas to meet the trading standards of any foolish country who will still do business with us.]

Yes she's be better saying, 'We are taking back control of 5% of our laws, we already control the rest'. But a) telling porkies is something that TM is very familiar with and b) it doesn't make a good soundbite.

I don't know what proportion of laws are involved but I believe the figure is something like that. Even when we do impose EU laws we often put a few extra bits in ourselves. The EU has been such a good excuse for rubbish legislation emanating from Westminster.

Any 'Law' emanating from the EU is likely to be pretty well reasoned and therefore 'balanced' as anything too outlandish would not get agreement from 27/28 countries with differing viewpoints.

At least when do leave the government can no longer use the EU as the excuse for everything that is wrong in this country. ‘Taking back control’ comes with big expectations for some people who really believe that all our problems will dissolve. It will be interesting to see how the government will cope with the fallout when they have no one else to blame.

It will be interesting to see how the government will cope with the fallout when they have no one else to blame.

That's easy. It will still be the EU's fault for having been so mean to us and not giving us those "membership" benefits we still want while not wanting to pay for it or follow its rules

I’m gobsmacked at the amount of people on here that have fallen out with people over politics!?

I voted leave. I love a good debate so I talked about it with loads of people. Lots of my work colleagues voted remain and there were some feisty debates in the staff room sometimes but not to the point in falling out! I found the process of learning other people’s views interesting. Debating is basically trying to proove your right or trying to change someone else’s views to fall into line with your own theories. Unless you’re a total control freak it has to end with smiles and am agreement to agree to disagree.
I’d be seriously embarrassed if there was someone out there who wasn’t speaking to me over bloody Brexit of all things.
I do have a cousin who is very left wing and politics mad. She was ardently remain. Her Facebook is 80% politics and she doesn’t care one jot about who she offends as she’s so sure she’s right. It’s possible, had i of taken her up on her constant goading to leavers that she would have fallen out with me, so I just sat on my hands and ignored it. She would have taken it too personally. She probably sits there tapping away on Facebook thinking she’s too intelligent to be taken on or too right about everything she says. But it reality we are just less aggressive than she is and we all just think she’s a bit sad.

Vinylsamso would you fall out with someone if they were racist? I would hope the answer would be yes.

Many posters on the thread have said how Brexit has brought to the fore racism and they have fallen out over that.

The government are going to blame the process of Brexit for everything and anything that fucks up over the next 10 years. It's like when they blame "the previous administration" for problems, if I fuck up at work I should blame the person who did my job before, even if it was 8 years ago!

Moussemoose

What’s being racist got to do with it?

If I met someone who said vile things about another person just because they had a different colour skin then yes of course I would fall out with them. That would make them a twat without a brain.
Do I fall out with people who have old school views about different religions (not skin colour) and behaviours that come from different countries? No, I can’t be arsed.

We live in a Town that has a huge Polish presence. My Dads always ranting on about “the bloody polish”. I like the Polish and I think he’s bonkers to enjoy talking about them so much. His problem isn’t with an actual individual polish person but that he thinks the government was wrong to allow such mass immigration. He’s allowed that view. I told my Polish friend at work about my Dad, we laughed about it together. Dad met my Polish friend, they got on well. Me and said Polish friend have a good laugh saying to each other “bloody Polish” when there’s no one else to blame when something’s gone wrong.
No worries here, everyone’s alright. Except my Dad who is running out of people who will listen to his stories about the Polish for the hundredth time. Silly old git I know but fall out with him? Never, he’s got a heart of gold and he’d help anyone- including the bloody polish.

Life is only as hard as you make it.

I’m gobsmacked at the amount of people on here that have fallen out with people over politics!?

I voted leave

Yup, I’ve fallen out with leaver relatives over the fact that my European citizen rights will be taken away from me, throwing my immediate future plans up in the air.

To cap it all, one leaver relative said it won’t matter if it doesn’t work out well for the UK because she’ll be dead by then.

So thanks for that.

Vinylsamso

What’s being racist got to do with it?

Have you read the thread?

I only know a couple of people stupid enough to vote Leave. And I hardly see them anyway, so it makes no odds.

Ironically they’re both highly educated - one an Oxbridge educated QC. But they’re the typical 60+ Telegraph demographic.

In answer to the original question OP - No. We voted differently and have different views, with our own views and reasoning, but that doesn't mean we can't accept the others' different pov.

I know my mum, auntie and sister voted leave. My sister used to share Britain First posts on Facebook but would be horrified if anyone suggested she's racist Luckily I'm NC with her now. My mum freely admitted the other day that she didn't really know what she was actually voting for when she voted leave yet she's one of the ones that this government has screwed over and will be screwed over with this too.she regrets her vote.

None of the leave voters posting on this thread seem willing to address the issue that this is not 'a difference of opinion' or an unwillingness to accept a different point of view. Leavers have voted to remove fundamental rights from the entire UK population. That's why people are pissed off and unwilling to forgive, particularly if the voter in question made their decision for stupid reasons like bendy bananas or 'sovereignty'. If they voted for Brexit for reasons relating to racism - and let's at least acknowledge that EDL, NF, BNP, Identitarians, etc all support leave - then that's even worse.

I would have a modicum of sympathy for those Leavers who voted thinking that there would be more money for the NHS. Why they thought the Tories would have a change of heart and start committing to it, after doing their best to privatise it, the stealthier the better, is beyond me.