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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
Talkstotrees · 05/08/2018 09:55

Brilliant post LoveInTokyo. Thank you.

Talkstotrees · 05/08/2018 10:02

Hmm Overwhelmingly = 52.5/47.5

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 10:04

Surferjet... follow your logic through... if the French can and the English can't is it the fault of the EU or the up to the people in the country that there is an issue with flying the flag?

surferjet · 05/08/2018 10:06

How about you list all the areas in Wales where the leave vote won.
Because if it wasn’t for Wales we’d still be in the EU.

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 10:09

No listen to the smug voters in the wealthier rural areas of S East England for why Leave won.

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 10:12

What? Sorry I think I missed a step there - am I meant to list the areas in Wales that voted leave in order to discuss if the EU has made the flying of the st George flag percieved as racist? Or was the wales list in reference to something else?

surferjet · 05/08/2018 10:13

I’ll help you.

From the BBC just after the referendum.

The vast bulk of Wales' council areas, many of them Labour-supporting, voted for Leave with a majority in 17 backing Brexit

Only five areas - Gwynedd, Cardiff, Ceredigion, the Vale of Glamorgan and Monmouthshire - voted for Remain

lljkk · 05/08/2018 10:14

Gosh, regional identity in England is fierce. People from Norfolk, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Brummieland, London, Cornwall, Northumbria, Merseyside, Manchester,Lakes: all know who they are. Very firmly.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 10:14

Do you think the majority of people in Wales are racist?

I’m interested in your thoughts on this.

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 10:17

@surferjet. I'm really confused... who are you asking the Welsh racist question too?

surferjet · 05/08/2018 10:17

Any remainer who has an opinion on it.

frumpety · 05/08/2018 10:19

Oh Surfer and Rosstac I am English and live in England, I happen to love my country, I think it is a fabulous place. I don't despise my country and I don't despise you two either, I think you are wrong about some stuff. The day I am not allowed to say I think you are wrong about some stuff is the day when I might start to despise my country Smile

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 10:19

Wales voted to leave because it's one of the most deprived areas of the UK and they were pissed off about not having been listened to in living memory. Unfortunately that won't change post Brexit. They'll just lose their EU regional aid and it won't be replaced by the UK government.

Port Talbot is a great example of how Wales gets screwed over. The EU wanted to impose a tariff on cheap, heavily subsidised Chinese steel to stoo it from flooding the European market. The Chinese government twisted the UK government's arm and the UK blocked the European measure. The UK then used EU state aid rules as an excuse for why it couldn't bail out Tata Steel in Port Talbot. You couldn't make this shit up.

As for the national identity point, I used to be proud to be British and European, but the Brexiters ruined all that by forcing me to choose. And the way our country has behaved in the last few years makes me ashamed, not proud.

I will always be a British citizen, and I can choose to identify more or less as British depending on how I feel about my country at the time. But right now my European identity is the one under threat and so that is the identity I am fighting to protect. For me that has meant moving to France and putting the wheels in motion to obtain French citizenship, even though I don't think I will ever identify as French, no matter how long I live here.

I hope that one day I have a reason to be proud of the UK again.

OP posts:
surferjet · 05/08/2018 10:25

It’s just all I’ve heard on this board since the referendum is insults like ‘little Englander’ ‘racist English’ so I’m interested in your views on Wales & how they voted, because you never mention them in your insults.
Because as I said, if it wasn’t for Wales we’d still be in the EU.

Personally I can’t thank the people of Wales enough for their vision & bravery.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 10:27

According to surferjet "Because if it wasn’t for Wales we’d still be in the EU."

.....yet, if every single person who voted Leave in Wales (c850,000 of them), had voted Remain instead, we'd still be leaving as the majority was a decisive Hmm 1.27 million Confused

It would've been nice interesting though (ditto with the Scottish/NI results) if the result had indeed been closer and it was Wales and/or Scotland and/or NI who had "kept England in against its will".

Can you imagine the howls of horror?! Shock

WatermelonGlitter · 05/08/2018 10:35

It's nothing new Surfer. There has been a not so subtle, destructive narrative played out in the UK for years now that British = bad and European= good. It's been there for anyone with ears to hear...but not many are listening.

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 10:35

There have been insults from all sides. But there have been lots of people who haven't insulted. Ive also seen some pretty specific posts that leave votes werent about racism. Lots who are talking about different issues. So I think the "are Welsh people racist" is a distraction. As you may have already picked up I voted leave but I don't consider myself to be consciously racist. I don't think talking about or questioning what you think drives cultural identity is either racist or insulting either.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 10:37

'Little Englander' is a specific term for a specific type of person not a general insult against the English.

I have studied some history and that is one of the reasons I find all kinds of nationalism problematic. Having said that I am very proud of my countries heritage first TUC, we beheaded a monarch long before the French, we were pivotal in the foundation of the ECHR. We have a proud tradition of radical politics.

You might not find the same pride in those things though surferjet.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 10:38

It's basic maths. Hmm

The numbers who voted Leave in Wales did not change the result. Even if every single one of them had changed their vote to Remain, the UK would still be leaving. Confused

The result would've been even closer - but apparently anything above 50% is decisive. Hmm

Unless of course the result had gone the other way Hmm, cf Farage saying before the result if the result were 52:48 in favour of Remain, he wouldn't stop campaigning. Confused

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 10:38

And perhaps I should clarify.. I don't understand why it's being presented as a choice. You are British and European or French and European etc I don't see it as a good/bad choice.

Talkstotrees · 05/08/2018 10:41

I’m English born & bred, lived in England all my life. I’m happy to be English and I love England. I’m not proud to be English though, just happy. I try to avoid pride in all things. Pride often ends badly.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 10:45

So you see being proud about who you are / what you identify as / as something bad?

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 10:49

I see nationalism as a big issue as it has been a key factor in many wars. To blindly assume love of country is always positive is very dangerous.

However, being proud of the positive things your county has done and loving the people and surroundings you are used is normal and nice.

Don't forget as Napoleon said "men will fight and die for a rag on a stick" patriotism has a lot to answer for.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 10:54

Many Scots (like me) are proud to be both Scottish and European.

I used to be proud to be British (indeed, I spent my year in France in 80/81 explaining that "je suis ecossaise et britannique " .....but also having to explain, "je ne suis pas anglaise" ) but for a number of years now (probably since the Iraq War Sad) I am no longer proud to be British Sad

PestymcPestFace · 05/08/2018 10:58

I often think the problem is England. There is a high population pretending to be one entity, we are just not. If you don't live in the affluent SE, it is easy to feel a little dumped upon. Should England be devolved in regions? Wessex, Mercia etc.

Our butcher sources all his meat from within a 20 mile radius. His prices are not too bad. He struggles to earn a living as people prefer the supermarket. Same with the other shops. How do we get a disaffected population to reengage at a local level and develop pride not prejudice.