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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
littlebillie · 04/08/2018 12:23

This is an active thread why not the Active boards

Rosstac · 04/08/2018 12:29

Moussemoose how is it democracy when you will not accept the result of the vote

littlebillie · 04/08/2018 12:31

LouiseCollins28 The EU tends to give the money to poor areas like Cornwall and Wales whereas the British government ignores these areas.

This is so true and isnt it better the whole of Europe has a better standard of living rather than a few counties. Better standard of living means less migration

Moussemoose · 04/08/2018 12:31

Because it was an advisory referendum and in the U.K. parliament is sovereign.

Democracy requires opposition.

I may have mentioned this before.

MrsChollySawcutt · 04/08/2018 12:39

Dingdongdino preparing for the worst case scenario by stockpiling food and medicine is not 'pathetic' it is a sensible approach to dealing with the absolute unknown that a no deal Brexit will bring.

Frankly it would be criminal if we were not planning to stockpile medicines and blood products. My worry is that we have started this process too late and that the planned 4 week supply won't leave us prepared enough.

Or is your view that the lives of insulin dependent diabetics and many others similarly dependent upon life saving medication are worth sacrificing to the Brexit cause?

I wouldn't call that attitude 'having British spirit' either it's just plain ignorant.

jasjas1973 · 04/08/2018 12:44

Scaring people into stock piling tinned food is ridiculous

Agree, why has the Government done this?
the latest is that discussions have taken place that in the event of a no-deal, Police leave will be cancelled for 2 months after next March.

We ve a Brexitier Government, intent on leaving, yet they are the ones stoking the fires of panic, not Remainers.

LouiseCollins28 · 04/08/2018 12:46

@littlebllie. Sorry it took me a minute to understand your post, I’ve got it now :-). The UK government spend more per head in Wales than it does in the UK overall on average.

Is it good for the whole of Europe to have high living standards? of course!

The standard of services here in the UK should be determined IMO by how much money our government decides to tax citizens and corportations and how it chooses to spend the money it generates from doing so. The standards attainable in say, France, should be similarly a matter between the French citizenry and the French government.

caroldecker · 04/08/2018 12:47

The EU does not give money to anyone in the UK - the EU takes money from the UK and returns some of it how and when it sees fit.
The Greek crisis was caused by how the Euro was set up and implicit guarantees on repayments.

Moussemoose · 04/08/2018 12:53

caroldecker long term and short term causes. You mention one of the trigger causes of the crisis in Greece. There were also a number of structural issues that were the result of the policies of the Greek government over a number of years.

The EU did not act well in this instance. However, to throw this country into economic turmoil based on one incident is extreme.

MrHoolieswaistcoat · 04/08/2018 13:11

mobile.twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1024186898510700544/video/1

I have been feeling really despondent lately but today I feel more hopeful and more angry.
I think it was sparked by reading a quote from JRM that people who went to state schools are ‘as thick as potted plants’ Angry

LikeIDo1 · 04/08/2018 13:13

Personally I voted leave because the EU as it stood in 2016 wasn't what people voted for in 1973. It changed beyond recognition.

Imagine signing up to a club on the basis of one idea, then over the years the terms of that idea kept changing and was unrecognisable to what you signed up for in the first place? Then imagine going in saying hang on, this isn't the club I signed up to and the people running the club said "er well sorry sir but this is what it is now so tough."

If the EU was in 1973 like it is now, I wonder how many people would have voted to join it?

Thomasinaa · 04/08/2018 13:14

He actually said that?!!!

Moussemoose · 04/08/2018 13:19

LikeIDo1 over the course of the years there have been many treaties that have changed the EU all of which have been agreed by the democratically elected governments of this country.

The EU didn't just change without permission or discussion. Even the arch anti EU PM Thatcher negotiated the Single European Act.

People voted for governments that agreed change.

LikeIDo1 · 04/08/2018 13:34

What about those people who didn't vote for the party in power at that particular time? Or the fact that our government voted for these changes yet the actual people (UK citizens) who they effect have never been consulted since 1973?

How many people didn't vote for Thatcher or Major or Blair for instance? Our hands as a U.K. citizen have been tied for years over the EU with more and more red tape and legislation added every time.

I don't suppose all of the people who voted leave did so because they wanted to leave the EU as a whole, but they were certainly not happy with how the "club" had become which has quite frankly been out of their hands to change for a long time.

Jason118 · 04/08/2018 13:37

So what were our MEP's for then? Were they not representing the people?

Moussemoose · 04/08/2018 13:43

Both the major political parties have negotiated EU deals. We have representatives in the European Parliament and our government is represented on the Council of Ministers.

We have not had a referendum on the issue because unlike Switzerland and Ireland we are not a direct democracy. The U.K. system of government involves us voting for our MPs and they make decisions on our behalf.

If you don't like the system campaign for constitutional reform.

Oh yeah 'red tape' saves lives. Health and Safety red tape means people don't get killed. I support that.

Peregrina · 04/08/2018 13:45

Imagine signing up to a club on the basis of one idea, then over the years the terms of that idea kept changing and was unrecognisable to what you signed up for in the first place? Then imagine going in saying hang on, this isn't the club I signed up to and the people running the club said "er well sorry sir but this is what it is now so tough."

Imagine joining a club and after a couple of years you are asked to join the committee and will be able to make decisions. You say, no can't be bothered. Then a few years later those people who did bother to give up their time and energy agree to change the rules. Then you start whining that the rules have changed. In addition to saying "tough", the committee also add "and you were asked to join the committee, you could never be bothered to partake, so don't come complaining now."

No one reading a typical Leaver whinge would realise that yes, we used to have EU Commissioners, yes, we have had a UK President of the Commission, yes we have elected MEPs. So yes, we did have influence. Go back to believing the lies of Johnson, Gove, Farage and those wonderful stalwarts Grease-Smug and Deadwood Redwood, who are so confident of this Brave New United Kingdom to make its own laws etc. that even now are scuttling to put their money elsewhere and expect it to be bad for 50 years.

Helmetbymidnight · 04/08/2018 13:45

don't suppose all of the people who voted leave did so because they wanted to leave the EU as a whole,

Oh dear, what an error. Confused

LikeIDo1 · 04/08/2018 13:46

The irony of it..

"I didn't vote for the government or the MEP who agreed to XYZ with the EU.."

"But they were an elected government or MEP voted for into power in a democratic society.."

"But I don't agree with it so that's not fair.."

"Sorry but we live in a democracy.."

Peregrina · 04/08/2018 13:47

So what were our MEP's for then? Were they not representing the people?

In the case of UKIP MEPs - no, out to wreck things, but will be very happy to receive their EU pensions, thank you very much, when they are given the boot.

LikeIDo1 · 04/08/2018 13:51

Not everyone voted for their MEP though. Another thing about living in a democracy.. 100% of the people voting won't ever be happy all at the same time..

Cobblersandhogwash · 04/08/2018 13:54

This nails it.

An open letter to leavers
LikeIDo1 · 04/08/2018 13:55

Were the younger generations asked to join a committee? As in those who aren't old enough to have voted in the early- mid 1970s? Or were they just expected to suck it all up when it came to the decisions their parents/grandparents made?

Walkingdeadfangirl · 04/08/2018 13:56

As long as we actually leave the EU (the SM & CU) then Brexiteers will have gotten what they wanted.
We voted to END free movement of people not just tinker with some 'limits' to it.

Its just stupid that we have to pay the EU money so they can dish it out to poorer areas of the UK pretending its EU money.

Maybe its the UK governments fault rather than the EUs to fix some of the issues we have but for whatever reason they haven't been dealt with. Leaving the EU will force the UK to deal with these 'issues'. We will have to train our own doctors and nurses, plumbers and electricians, fruit pickers and care workers if we need them.

During the process of these negotiations it has become clear why its very important that we do leave the EU. We have become to dependant on other people and other countries to do things for us.

Cobblersandhogwash · 04/08/2018 13:58

@Rosstac, no we can't leave it for 40 years.

We are not clueless clowns who are going to leave the fate of our country in the hands of idiot leave politicians who have no idea how to negotiate our exit (David Davis) or how to negotiate trade deals (Liam Fox).

So whilst you may have an irrational hatred of the EU and want out at at any cost, the more balanced among us would like the U.K. to detour to its status of 5th largest economy in the world.