An open letter to leavers

[LoveInTokyo]

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

Rosstac the government has also promised that there will be no hard border in Ireland. They have said two things which are mutually exclusive so they are going to have to backtrack on one of them.

@littlebillie interesting point about the return of EU money through grants, etc. How is this preferable to the UK government not forking over (more) money to the EU in the first instance and spending our own money without losing some to the EU on the long way round?

littlebillie I should get on to your MEP and get them to get on with some kind of deal with the U.K., it’s up to them as well

LoveInTokyo And as yet there is still no hard border, there will not be one

And as yet there is still no hard border, there will not be one

At last something we agree on.

There will be no hard border because we'll remain in SM/CU

Rosstac I have been effected by FOM. I have relatives and friends who live and work in Europe. I work in a multicultural environment with colleagues and students from a variety of European countries. I find it enriching and life enhancing to mingle with all these different cultures.

I have been very positive effected by FOM which is why I support it.

If we leave the SM and CU there will be a hard border on the island of Ireland or down the Irish Sea - assuming, as Leavers campaigned, we want to move to WTO terms to govern trade.

It might be one of the EU red lines, but it’s also one of the governments red lines to end FOM, so that’s that then, nobody going to make offers

Happen to agree, i d like May to go to the EU and say "ok, if you can give us a suspension on FOM, we ll have another referendum on this compromise, otherwise we ll continue down the brexit path"
Its what DC should have done, instead of running like a scared cat.

though it still doesnt address how we would control our borders to the level needed.

However, May is in hock to her party, which are 70/30 in favour of leaving the EU, if she did what we ve suggested, she d be out of power within days.
So it aint going to happen.

LouiseCollins28 The EU tends to give the money to poor areas like Cornwall and Wales whereas the British government ignores these areas.

Bearbehind No have you not been listening to Parliament, we are leaving the CU/SM

Moussemoose It’s has had a massive effect on me my family and friends in my area in a very negative way, but as long as you are alright that’s ok

“Go to your local mp and get some decent facts”

My MP is Jeremy Hunt, too.
Maybe he’ll make a better Foreign Secretary. He certainly doesn’t have much to live up to in his predecessor.

rosstac as you've pointed out, the government have also said we're not having a hard border.

They can't both happen.

Leaving SM/CU will give.

It will be called something else to appease Leavers though.

LouiseCollins28

How would you ensure any potential brexit dividend is not given away in tax cuts?
In 2019/20 our corporation tax rate is being cut from 19% (lowest in G7 already) to 17% at a cost of £5 billion per year, ontop of the previous £5billion the previous cut is costing us.
Inheritance tax is also being cut, costing us all £2billion per year.

There is zero requirement to spend this money on anything in particular.

jasjas1973 Suspension/ pause and a new referendum I’m sure you would get your wish of staying in the EU,

Louise - When you put it like that it doesn't seem preferable, does it? But then you have to consider that it all comes out of the same pot, so the negative impact on our economy as a result of Brexit means there will be less money to pay for those things even if we no longer make a financial contribution to the EU. Our EU contribution also pays for our share of a whole range of civil service functions which are currently done on behalf of 28 countries by one centralised organisation. This is much more efficient than each country having their own. After Brexit we will need our own agencies to do these things and this will cost money. The other advantage of EU funding for its recipients is that it is much more secure. Farmers know that their EU funding will not just be taken away if a new government gets into power and decides not to pay for it anymore. Deprived regions can get EU regional aid irrespective of the fact that the Tories and Labour won't prioritise this because it's not a vote winner for them.

Rosstac, on the FOM point. We can stop FOM. But if we do, we will have to accept a hard border in Ireland (which we said we wouldn't do), political instability in Northern Ireland potentially Scotland as well), and losing all the benefits of the single market and customs union (which will have an extremely negative impact on the economy.

We have the choice. Or, rather, the government has that choice.

But do you really think all of those negative consequences are a price worth paying to end FOM, and if so, how confident are you that a majority of those who voted in the referendum two years ago would agree with you? Because they would need to agree with you in order for there to be a genuine mandate for ending FOM.

We already know that there is no majority for Brexit amongst those registered to vote, to say nothing of the wider population.

Bearbehind This is where compromise has to happen, if both sides keep burying their heads in the sands then I’m afraid it will be a no deal

The EU does indeed give money to poorer areas, so does HMG. I’m not sure about the Cornwall example, the south west as a whole seems to be below UK average on the data I looked at . Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all receive more than the UK average , according to this.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04033

Rosstac you asked if I have been effected I have in a positive way.

If you could explain exactly how FOM has negatively impacted I might have a point of reference. Many leave supporters make general comments but when examined they are not always what you think. An example of this would on this thread this morning.

I've read most of the thread and I'm 100% with you op. I'm very disappointed for my children.

But Rosstac it's not a zero sum game.

If the EU compromise on FOM for us, it will be the end of the EU because all the other countries will want their own special deal and there will no longer be any agreement to respect common rules.

They already gave us a bespoke deal. No euro, no schengen, justice and home affairs opt outs.

Why should they compromise any more?

We need them more than they need us. We'll have to suck it up.

LoveInTokyo A pause in FOM for a set time, would no doubt get enough leavers on board to win a second referendum, in that period the government could set up enough checks to control FOM in the U.K. properly, what have you got to lose?

If that were an option (which it isn't), what would that achieve other than kicking the can down the road for 5 years?

The EU has had enough of our childishness. They want us to shit or get off the pot.

This is where compromise has to happen, if both sides keep burying their heads in the sands then I’m afraid it will be a no deal

You just don't get it do you rosstac

There is no compromise to be had.

You can have 'a bit of a hard border'.

No deal requires a hard border and leaving SM/CU requires a hard border- which is why neither will happen.

But we can already introduce the limits to FOM to address the issues raised by some 'leaver voters' on this and other threads/forums. It is our several Govts over 15 years that have not passed those laws that the EU already makes available to Member States. Why do leave supporters think that is? Why do we not know who is entering/leaving the country? This is a UK issue - it is not the case in other EU member states.