Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
Blushah · 03/08/2018 12:51

breakdown of the referendum results

-reveals that about 1/4 of the population voted Leave.

That's not very many, is it, to bring such catastrophe down upon the heads of the other 75%?

FantailsFly · 03/08/2018 12:53

Whether you are a leaver or a remainer, it seems to me that all of our views are now deeply entrenched. Of the leavers I know, nearly all remain adamant that Brexit is the right path despite what others may see as clear evidence to the contrary. Does anyone think that either side would vote differently in a second referendum? Most leavers aren't for turning - nor are remainers as far as I can see.

Moussemoose · 03/08/2018 12:56

We have a cultural issue relating to the education of boys. I work with many young people, boys especially, who are 'disenchantment' with education. We get them qualifications, point them at a trade and change lives.

Get your DS down to an FE college surferjet before the Tory government shuts them all down, the staff are paid crap but they are genuinely committed to second chances.

Post on the education board loads of people will help you.

This is nothing to do with the EU though.

badteacher · 03/08/2018 12:56

Hear hear op
Publish this !
It needs to be heard 👏

Motheroffourdragons · 03/08/2018 12:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Rosstac · 03/08/2018 12:57

SoloD that can’t be true, when I was young and working my way up the career ladder, All jobs in the factories were carried out by Uk citizens and the wages were relatively the good with overtime and shift pay, you could walk out of one job and find another on the same pay or better, there was a real community spirit at work with many social events laid on, Xmas events and usually a good Xmas bonus.
Fast forward to today, the same jobs are being done by none UK citizens on min to living wage, usually employed through an agency, so no overtime rate, no local community spirt, hard to get a employed job as you have to go through the agency. Usually run by no UK citizens.
So I can’t be that unskilled EU citizens do not reduce the number and quality of full time jobs available
How many car washers, cleaners, factory workers etc do we need and if on min wage or cash in hand are not contributing to the government coffers,
I have nothing against skilled workers coming on a job based visa,
But can we not train and retain more UK people even if it costs more and takes longer, not everybody has the mental capacity to be a brain surgeon or a pilot,, but a lot of companies have stopped training are youth and it’s very sad and wrong

Yvaine1 · 03/08/2018 12:59

Difference is though....

Remainers are dealing facts and analysis, things useful in looking at consequences.

Leavers are dealing ideology and stubbornness, in refusing to accept they voted for an impending shit storm for all of us with no clue as to how to make it work.

littlebillie · 03/08/2018 13:02

Just watch this now truely terrified you need to watch this to understand

littlebillie · 03/08/2018 13:04

If we don't have a hard border in Northern Ireland we can't trade with ANYONE in the world we have just written it into the Brexit paper.

Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 13:06

surfer I really do despair- you voted for Brexit because your son hasn't done well at school so you thought if immigrants didn't take all the unskilled jobs he'd have more opportunities. 🤔

It really saddens me how fucked up that logic is.

Brexit is going to screw the economy so there will be less opportunities full stop.

what kids who are less academic need is more options and better training but our government isn't interested in that, and leaving the EU won't change that.

caroldecker · 03/08/2018 13:10

Blusah

reveals that about 1/4 of the population voted Leave.
That's not very many, is it, to bring such catastrophe down upon the heads of the other 75%

And less voted to remain

Rosstac · 03/08/2018 13:12

Bearbehind And being in the EU hasn’t stopped it either

Doubletrouble99 · 03/08/2018 13:16

Bear - where did Surfer say that she voted leave just because her DS hasn't done very well at school? She used her experience of having a son in this position to explain one of the reasons she doesn't want unskilled workers coming into the UK but at no stage did she say that was the one and only reason she voted leave.

Moussemoose · 03/08/2018 13:30

The solution to young unskilled people is second chance education in FE. Stop underfunding it and pay FE lecturers properly. Sort out the apprenticeship system applying rigour and proper checks.

Work on giving our young people transferable skills - whole other thread I could post reams but it has nothing to do with the EU.

jasjas1973 · 03/08/2018 13:41

Bearbehind And being in the EU hasn’t stopped it either

All that goes to prove is that the EU isnt this federal super state intent on controlling every aspect of our lives.... it doesnt and never will.

We live in a free market economy, with little in the way of regulation or incentives to train our own youth, far cheaper to bring in low, semi & skilled workers from the rest of the world, which is going to continue post brexit as every one says they want to continue to do so, inc Surfer!

Surfer should ask herself why a young Pole can come here, work in a low skilled industry, get HB and WTC but her son would get sod all other than his wage in Warsaw?

Rosstac · 03/08/2018 13:42

Moussemoose It may have nothing to do with the EU, so it won’t matter if we leave then, but FOM at the lower end has made it very easy to get already train labour, why bother training the young, it would cost and be time consuming

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 13:45

All that goes to prove is that the EU isnt this federal super state intent on controlling every aspect of our lives.... it doesnt and never will.

THIS.

It drives me nuts when people blame the EU for things that are nothing to do with the EU but are the fault of our own domestic government policy, and then when you point this out they say the EU hasn't fixed the problem either, when those same people also object to the EU interfering in our business.

The EU will only get involved in matters that are subject to EU competence.

This means that NO, the EU does not interfere with life in Britain anywhere near as much as the Daily Mail some people think it does, and NO, the EU will not intervene to stop the government from doing things you disagree with if those things have nothing to do with EU policy areas.

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 13:47

This really is head against a brick wall stuff isn't it?

FOM is not just going to stop. Those who want to come here and do low paid, low skilled jobs still will manage to do so.

The government aren't suddenly going to train more people at great expense.

Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 13:48

double, surfer has always said she voting purely for immigration reason so it is either based on how it impacts her personally, i.e. Her son's situation or is based on nothing that actually affects her.

littlebillie · 03/08/2018 13:54

It almost funny but we don't have a sea port deep enough to take delivery of the modern ships we rely on, we use Antwerp dock, which is nada from March. We are heading it to complete social breakdown Mark Carey is off to safe Canada.

PeckhamPauline · 03/08/2018 13:57

LoveInTokyo If you can't name any of the potential benefits of Brexit, then you didn't do your research and were no more qualified to vote in the referendum than the thick Leavers you refer to.

Mishappening · 03/08/2018 13:58

Robert Peston (who supports staying in the EU) says in his latest book: “The votes for Trump and Brexit were not the ignorant mistakes of the misguided. They were declarations by millions of families that they will no longer tolerate the countries they love being run against their values and economic interests by a self-renewing elite.” He also, later in the book, states that people who voted leave are less educated - but he also goes on to say that their vote does not mean they are "thick," as some are apt to label them, but that they are the people who have been drawing the short straw in our society and have been most impacted adversely by immigration; so their vote makes sense.

I think his view is worth considering; as the blanket insulting labelling of people who voted differently from you gets us nowhere. They may have sound reasons.

Peston's view is that we need to stop propping up international banking and capital and start spending to remove society's inequalities. I believe he is right.

Most people deprecate the sort of racist anti-immigration that we have seen; but, although on balance immigration brings a net benefit, it adversely affects some sectors of the population whose needs have been sidelined.

We need to take a long hard look at why we are in this situation and start understanding the difficulties of the have-nots.

Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 14:00

peckhampauline what a bizarre argument.

Leavers can't name any benefits of Brexit so why on earth would someone who voted to Remain be able to name any.

That's the whole reason most Remainers voted as they did- there were and still aren't any tangible benefits of leaving.

Moussemoose · 03/08/2018 14:03

why bother training the young, it would cost and be time consuming

Because we are a decent country that cares about its young people?

I understand the point you are making though, but that is an argument for the race to the bottom. Why bother when we can get it cheaper. We need to raise our standards within the U.K. and raise the standard of debate not just point our fingers at others.

Other European countries don't engage with this type of nonsense they invest in proper education and training because it's the right thing to do.

Leaving the EU is mind bogglingly stupid for lots of reasons but the fact we fail to train, educate or prepare the lower skilled end of our workforce for jobs is not crucial to the debate.

jasjas1973 · 03/08/2018 14:04

@PeckhamPauline

Name 3 potential tangible benefits of Brexit.

Swipe left for the next trending thread