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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

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PestymcPestFace · 03/08/2018 09:36

I did summer fruit picking at 16-18. Those of us fruit picking were better paid than our friends pouring coffee. Honestly, give it a try (you do need to be reasonably fit).

PineappleSunrise · 03/08/2018 09:37

True, Mother. No robots for the foreseeable future can be trusted to locate, assess for ripeness, pick, and pack fruit in the fields, so that's not going to be automated any time soon.

I'd not be jumping at the chance to work in an Amazon Warehouse or for Uber, though. Those are companies that could use a good, hard dose of legislation to protect workers' rights. Last I checked the EU had a working committee on that, but the UK is too busy banging on about how technology that doesn't exist operationally is going to solve the Irish border issue. (Clue: it's not. And it isn't going to be implemented in time to sort out customs at places like Dover either, even if there was a clear plan from the government for what customs will need to do.)

Quietrebel · 03/08/2018 09:37

surferjet stopping immigration really will NOT solve the problem. I work in an industry badly affected by what you describe. The digital economy IS a huge disruption, but the population still needs to grow (through immigration or simply having more kids) or we'll end up with unsustainable demographics (way too many OAPs vs working age people). All developed economies are affected by the same problem. If you want better redistribution of digital wealth- as I do- do you think it's best tackled as an isolated mid-sized market or as a bloc of 500m? Which do you think will get more traction with the Amazons and Googles of this world? Which will make them follow rules and pay corporate tax? It's hard enough for the EU, the UK does not stand a chance. Please, we are totally on the same side and identified the same problems... we utterly disagree on the solution though.

Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 10:25

Oh surfer is well off alright. That's why she doesn't give a shit about the economic consequences of Brexit.

Now that really is hypocrisy!

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 10:35

I find it utterly bizarre that Surfer wants to stop immigration so that there are more unskilled jobs for her children, because that's the only way they stand a chance of getting a job.

Why isn't she encouraging her children to get some skills and then get a skilled job?

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indistinct · 03/08/2018 10:42

A few of points to those posters who have stated various views along the lines of 'I voted remain but we're all leavers now', 'the damage is already done so we should stay the course and make the best of it' or 'it's too late now'.

  • we're not all leavers by any means its our right within this democracy to voice our concerns and attempt to change the course of events
  • the damage is most definitely not all done, there's plenty still to come if we don't change course. Last I checked, Nissan, Airbus, BMW, Honda etc .. are still manufacturing here. Depending on the deal we get these operations are very much at risk with thousands of potential job losses at the various plants. Other industries (medicines, finance, aerospace, aviation etc ...) face similar large scale threats.
  • the good news is that it's not too late to change course. A50 can still be revoked and there is enough evidence that the EU would accept this to pursue this as a realistic option

To those feeling fatalistic about brexit (and I sometimes share your despondency), I think the messages mentioned at the beginning of this post may be part of a propaganda campaign designed to suppress dissent (I may of course just be paranoid). Whatever way you voted, if you feel that we're not on the right course now then you should take heart that we have not left yet and we can still avoid the worst of the damage by withdrawing A50. Furthermore, you can help make this happen through public/social media debate, private debate with those still supporting brexit, writing to MPs, marching/demonstrating etc ...

surferjet · 03/08/2018 10:48

My 1st job was as a ‘Saturday girl’ ( as we were called back then ) at M&S - I then went on to work for a major bank. I’ve done extremely well & now live in a house worth 800k, drive a brand new car & basically buy what I like. My kids want for nothing.
I left school with no qualifications whatsoever - I just had ambition & a hard work ethic.
No one leaving school today with zero qualifications will have the opportunities I had, the jobs just aren’t there anymore.
That’s my point.

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 10:49

Why are your children leaving school with zero qualifications if you've done so well for yourself?

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surferjet · 03/08/2018 11:01

Jesus Christ how many more times, it doesn’t matter how many qualifications you leave school with today, you’ll never have it as easy as I did because the JOBS ARE NOT THERE ANYMORE - do I need to draw you a picture?

jasjas1973 · 03/08/2018 11:03

My kids want for nothing..... and I just had ambition & a hard work ethic

You ve done them no favours at all, why be ambitious and hungry to improve when Mummy will bail me out?

You re just another brexitier blaming the EU for things they ve absolutely nothing to do with.

surferjet · 03/08/2018 11:06

If you read back you’ll see I’m not blaming the EU. I’m blaming technology.

It’s remainers who will blame Brexit for everything, when jobs are disappearing anyway.

Quietrebel · 03/08/2018 11:10

Only to the extent that brexit is an unnecessary additional burden that does nothing to address the real issues...

Moussemoose · 03/08/2018 11:10

I'm not a Tory, I have BIG issues with the gig economy, I campaign for secure employment and real,jobs but.....

An employment rate of 75(ish) % one of the highest we have had in this country does not indicate lack of jobs.

We do have an issue with lack of skills among (predominantly) white, working class youth but this is a result of systemic failure of social support, including education in certain areas. Nothing to do with the EU. In fact the EU has pumped money into these areas while they have been ignored by U.K. governments.

Moussemoose · 03/08/2018 11:11

Technology always changes employment patterns. That is an argument for education and training not leaving the EU.

Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 11:35

surfer you are really doing yourself no favours here.

There are still plenty of opportunities, they are just different.

Stopping foreigners coming here isn't going to change the fact one of the huge problems is kids today don't want to be 'a Saturday girl' when they know mummy and daddy will just give them money anyway.

It's no way near as simple as saying stopping immigration will create jobs for locals. For starters we're never going to prevent skilled workers coming here anyway, Brexit or no Brexit.

So your argument is completely non-sensical.

surferjet · 03/08/2018 11:49

You’re not understanding.

Skilled workers from abroad are always welcome here in my book, if we have vacancies & they have the skills then brilliant!

It’s the unskilled workers we don’t want, because there’s not enough unskilled jobs for our own people these days, it’s a changing world with fewer & fewer opportunities for the lower skilled - so why make the situation worse by allowing more & more unskilled people into the country?

But the bleedin’ obvious has never been your strong point.

Bearbehind · 03/08/2018 11:51

But the bleedin’ obvious has never been your strong point.

😂😂😂😂

Pot. Kettle. Black

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 12:04

So why don't you encourage your kids to get some skills and aspire to something better than an unskilled job then?

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Jayfee · 03/08/2018 12:11

I haven't read the whole thread but enough to know that a big problem is the them and us mentality by which I mean the remain and leave voters. The op starts saying leavers can't give one reason for leaving. That is incorrect. Leaving is a serious issue and the mocking on both sides is not helpful. If you listen to James O'Brien on LBC, every time he belittles a leave caller, he entrenches their views and some of the still undecided probably go towards leave. I think we need another referendum and yesterday signed an online petition for one. I voted remain in June 2016.My husband was thinking of voting leave as a protest vote,but voted Remain. Salient points to me are: many leavers had good reasons for voting leave at the time, I think many would now vote remain. Many of us had no idea about the customs union, Irish border issues or free trade in Europe obligations. There was Russian manipulation of the media. The vote was 48:52, so close Farage had said it would merit another referendum if such a close vote was remain. Before the referendum, I asked my local MP to recommend t the government much more information being given to the UK population about what the EU was doing. He told me to look online and I did and there is some very important good stuff going on. I think we need ongoing info on TV and radio, we know a lot of what our govt does, but most of us had no clue about the EU etc. I hope we don't leave but change it from within or have to close links in the future.

SoloD · 03/08/2018 12:26

There is very little research which indicates that immigration reduces the number of jobs available. More people in most conditions results in more jobs.

Interestingly EU migrants to the UK were net contributors to the governments budget.

surferjet · 03/08/2018 12:28

LoveInTokyo
Dd’s have done very well at school - but ds hasn’t ( not really sure why ? )
He’ll leave with very little in the way of qualifications. That’s worrying as a parent.

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 12:34

I'm sure it is worrying for you. All you can do is support him as best you can, help him work out what kind of work he is interested in and would be good at, and help him take the necessary steps to get there.

But hoping that a damaging no-deal Brexit will benefit your son because there will be fewer immigrants and so he might stand a better chance of getting a job fruit picking or working in Starbucks is not the answer. For a start, he can get those kind of jobs anyway.

Furthermore, if Brexit fucks the economy (and the received wisdom is that any kind of Brexit will fuck the economy but the harder the Brexit, the more it will fuck the economy), businesses will be slimming down, not expanding. And they will not suddenly be paying unskilled workers 50% more because there are fewer immigrants available to work for minimum wage. That's not how it works. They simply don't have enough flexibility in their margins to do that.

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surferjet · 03/08/2018 12:42

Thank you LoveInTokyo for Your kind & supportive reply. You’ve actually been nice to me & I nearly cried Flowers

Motheroffourdragons · 03/08/2018 12:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 12:46

That's OK, it sounds like you're having a tough time.

If it helps, my parents had similar worries about my brother and he is doing really well now. It just took him a while to figure out what he wanted to do and how to get into it.

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