Westminstenders: In the Brexit Lane

[RedToothBrush]

I honestly couldn't think of a better starter to the thread than simply just this tweet

Robert Peston @ peston
We’ve got an official opposition tearing itself apart over antisemitism, the founder of the EDL running rings around the judiciary and a government negotiating a Brexit plan that its own MPs and ministers tell me is dead. When will we pull ourselves together, as a nation?

But don't worry, your blue passport will get you an extra special long wait at passport control. And no deal could lead to continued freedom of movement anyway. Something for everyone in there.

Indeed, that wasn’t my point at all. Dyslexia is a wide ranging term. DS can do Algebra in his head given a straightforward algebra equation. What he can’t do is processthe information given in a long story about electricity or gas bills and convert it into an equation.

Thats not maths. Thats reading a problem. Which you'd never get in real life because someone would usually tell you it verbally.

Indeed. I think if it had been a paper full of just mathematical sums and equations he’d be fine.

But that is what people are being told maths is.

While at the same time I have SiL telling me I shouldn't explain place value to DS as its too complicated

(For context I'm not trying to teach DS maths, but he thought 35 should be written 305...)

Been out all day. Came back to see the headline that Gerry Adams is releasing a peace process cookbook. Can only assume I caught too much sun

MIL was teaching A Level IT up until a couple of years ago. She could barely use word and excel and certainly couldn't do any programming. She didn't do social media either.
Thats not solely limited to schools. IT was part of my degree and lecturers often didn't have any knowledge of the languages they were teaching. One was terrible, and had a go at me for not attending her lectures with the faculty head present - things didn't go too well for her when I had a complete lack of tact and said I managed to get to uni so reading is something I can do, I don't need someone to read from a text book at me for an hour

Dr Liam Fox @ liamfox
BREAKING NEWS: following ongoing UK government effort, Taiwan is preparing to open its market to British pork for the first time. The agreement is expected to be worth more than £50m to 🇬🇧 farmers over the next 5 years

Just a few small problems with this:

1. Pork is processed in slaughterhouses/factories - which are largely staffed by skilled workers from the EU. If these workers leave the UK in 2019, pork production capacity will fall accordingly;

2. Veterinary standards in UK pork production factories are monitored and certified by Vets - 90% of whom come from elsewhere in the EU. If these Vets leave, pork processing stops (as does beef, lamb and chicken processing). For more information on this subject, Fox can ask Farage, who was given chapter and verse on this by a caller during his radio show last week;

3. Pork processing uses a variety of chemicals and ingredients. CO2 for slaughter, storage and transport. Herbs, spices and preservatives for enhancing the end product etc. Mostly sourced from the EU and elsewhere - so if there are delays at the ports, production is affected;

4. The UK government doesn't sell pork. The major UK pork processor is Tulip - which in turn is owned by Danish Crown. If they sign a deal for £50m of UK pork to Taiwan (to where they already export Danish pork) and there are problems with supplies from the UK, they will simply agree with the Taiwanese to substitute Danish or Polish pork instead - they will have a surplus after the British domestic market becomes more difficult to supply.

@frankiestein401

I work for large out sourcing company and we ve a large apprenticeship scheme, in fact i applied for one, in my 50's, several of my colleague's are on them... but they aint for 18yo's, its used as a means to recover costs from the levy and up-skill staff.
We ve got graduate schemes too but again not for your average school leaver.
Of course lots of companies do schemes for school leavers, i know a few who are doing para legal stuff., Babcock Marine @ Devonport have great ones too, probably because its really hard to get the back ground checks necessary for a non uk national.
But my point is that there is no longer the the numbers of skilled apprenticeships around that there used to be & i think this is because its easier to employ skilled up workers from the EU.
Not really sure why anyone would argue against this, its obvious.

Unfortunately, in the workplace, there's usually noone to convert a problem into maths equations

• that conversion is the hard part of the work and the person who does it, then does the maths right afterwards.

I've come across too many grads in the Uk who can't convert a real life problem into maths
Those of us who can, don't wish to teach a skill that should have been learned at school.
Application of theory is essential for independent working without close supervision, which is expected of grads

My firm in Germany takes on bright undergrads to do a project as part of their degreee.
They get a fair rate of pay, good supervision and learn a lot - but they are expected to have the basics before they come to us and knowing how to apply theory is regarded as fairly basic in most cases;
we just nudge them a little in the right direction, as they may need practice to see what to do, but would never spoon feed.

I do find Germany is excellent for bringing on the talents of the non-academic in apprenticeships, which lead to a job, then on the ladder to foreman.
My firm takes on a lot of youngsters every year, from 16-17, trains them and the Works Council ensures they get offered a job if they complete the training.
The promotion ladder is clear, with automatic annual training (for all employees); foremen & senior foremen have a lot of responsibility and darn good pay to match.

singing, DG - My musings on possible shortages and rationing ...

I expect anyone like coeliacs needing special foods, or anyone with allergies is just going to be left to sort out their own limited diet from the available basic food stuffs.
Not great for those with little education or knowledge about possible substitutes for their condition.
The NHS probably won't have large stocks, even for those who have such foods on prescription.

Too many people think such folk are just "fussy" anyway, so they'll be given at most a leaflet of (probably impossible) advice

Even worse, think of those kids - and adults - with SN who would literally starve themselves to death rather than consume anything outside a range of a few foods & drinks.

According to senior civil servant JDD on RNorth's blog, there will be a ration card like a credit card.
But that has limitations: weak signal, or power cut to the machine reader in the shop ...

In WW2, people had to register with specific shops.
That worked, because most folk lived in the same place all their lives.
ALso, there were no supermarkets and self-service, so each item was personally handed out to each individual.

(I actually remember when Mum, Dad & I visited the first supermarket in our area, early 1960s. New-fangled idea fronm the USA. Exciting, but we wondered if it would really catch on !
I think now it was about the size of a petrol station Tesco, but then it was amazing to have so much in one shop and to put things in our own basket)

How could people register with one supermarket and than have it administer their personal rations ?
How would a system without specific shops work - like a bank account, but for grocery allowances instead ?

Whatever system - if any ! - I fear that the IT wouldn't work - not enough time to develop and test it.

Maybe go back to the 1940s (which would delight some Brexiters) and use paper ration books, at least as a backup.

Yes I know paper / cardboeard can be forged; that happened in WW2
However, at least most people were kept reasonably fed.

I wonder if the death rate / "failure to thrive" rose then among those with the equivalent of SN (not recognised then)
with the restricted diet and not being able to get some goods that people had become used to.

And BigChocFrenzy has just explained exactly why the issue with skills in the UKs workforce is a home made issue and nothing to do with FOM.

German firms are committed to bringing on the next generation of workers. If they train an 18 year old or invest in undergraduates they know they have a loyal and skilled workforce. In the gig economy it's not worth it, if it's easy to sack someone because they have few employment rights why bother trading them.

Others have discussed maths education in the U.K. and how this causes employers problems.

This is nothing to do with FOM. We don't value our workforce and many British employers won't invest in training. Brexit will not solve any of these issues and may only make them worse.

Repeatedly on these threads issues within British society are mentioned and discussed but these are not EU issues they are British problems and need a British solution.

I have attended several 25 year celebrations and 40 year celebrations - because it's still quite typical for German workers to spend their working life in the same firm.

They are honoured, typically with a long-service bonus of a month's pay and 2-4 extra days annual holiday (depending on 25 or 40 years) from then onwards.
National Service (abolished in the 1990s) usually counts towards this time and often counts towards time in the firm's pension scheme too (the state tops up)

Long service workers are valued for their experience and they provide important "institutuional knowledge" that so many UK companies - and the civil service - lack.

Training is mandatory at all ages.
At 62 and probably only 18 months away from retirement, I still a have mandatory 4 days annually for training to increase tech or personal skills.
Fully paid for by my firm, of course
4 days is the minimum; I can have more if I can make a reasonable business case

EU leaders are due to meet in October to discuss how to deal with Trump's tariffs and a possible trade war with the US.

This is why the EU pushed the Brexit deadline forward, to clear the decks for this:
Hence why EU leaders will be holding "final" talks with May in Salzburg on 20 September

BUT
Baldrick's new plan: UK pushing Brexit deal deadline to end of November, to exert pressure on EU

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-07/u-k-said-to-see-brexit-deal-deadline-slipping-to-end-november

U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May is resisting the European Union’s timetable for Brexit talks
and is calculating that U.S. President Donald Trump might help her

While EU officials are signaling they want September to be a showdown moment in negotiations,
the U.K. is aiming for a later deadline, according to a person familiar with the situation.

May’s team thinks that by the end of November the EU will be so preoccupied with the prospect of Trump disrupting a Group of 20 summit
that they will want to get the Brexit deal wrapped up, the person said.

The calculation, based on conversations with EU officials,
is that leaders such as Germany’s Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron of France will want to present a united European front in support of the rules-based system

• with May onside -

when they meet Trump at the summit on Nov. 30, the person said.

< but they won't want to meet him having weakened their Single Market to give May her cherry cake
I suppose the Uk govt is desperate enough to try anything ... except the obvious Norway++ still available >

I learned web development as an adult. And yes, I coded using Notepad. When you look at the code Dreamweaver generates and then at the code for a broadly similar site that's hand-coded the difference is stark.

I've come across too many heads in the UK who can't convert a real life problem into maths

This is why early specialisation is such a huge issue and why countries with a broad curriculum are on the right track.

My three (so far) DCs who have graduated from university in the US all had to do calc III, several humanities subjects, a mfl, English rhetoric, language and lit, and a few other courses not related to their majors.

grads thank you autocorrect :-/

Why does May think Trump will help her? Oh wait, chlorinated chicken and the destruction of the NHS by American firms.

Despite the headline, May's tactic seems to be delay any deal, so that she can threaten the EU with having to deal with Trump while Brexit talks are still ongoing.

The EU want to handle their problems one at a time, which is why the EU moved their "final" Brexit meeting from October to September.
May wants to spike that timing

It's one of her few areas of leverage - up until now, it has been the UK under time pressure because of the 2 year deadline
She - or more likely Ollie Robbins - has spotted a way to MAYBE put the EU under time pressure too.

In practice, if she & the cabinet are handling this cunning plan, then it'll backfire
If it's AR, it might give the UK a bit of leverage ... at the cost of seriously pissing off France, Germany & many other members.

Veterinary standards in UK pork production factories are monitored and certified by Vets - 90% of whom come from elsewhere in the EU. ... [Farage] was given chapter and verse on this by a caller during his radio show last week

Ah, that reminds me, came up at work a few yrs ago (we work in food diseases). There was a big bird flu outbreak somewhere in Suffolk & the govt responded according to their official plan what to do about it. Just one hitch... there weren't enough people in the whole of the EU who had the right training to implement the official plan (I think it was slaughtering all birds in X-mile radius). Another solution had to be fudged together. Just imagine more situations like that... must be dozens of such scenarios.

I used to work in IT/Telecoms. Then I had a baby and was managed out. I've been a childminder ever since. I doubt I'd ever get back into IT now - they all seem to want IT degrees these days, though I'm glad that most seem to have stopped looking for "dynamic" candidates. In my experience, "dynamic" usually meant "insufferable"!

I worked in telecoms too - but in Sales, so I didn't need to know the technical stuff in too much detail I dealt with the big stuff between carriers and I did have to get to know about things like PMD and the distances between repeaters though. I used to describe it to my parents as selling the biiiiiig pipes for telecom companies (in contrast to the itsy bitsy connections to consumers ).

When I started, 2Mb was big - by the time I left, we were talking about terabytes of capacity

Now, accountancy is a good one for taking on A level leavers and grads - and even school leavers.

In fact, if you can get on at a level it's a good route to a decent career without uni debt.

Unfortunately, it is marred by the misconception that you have to be a maths whizz.

You really don't. You need to be adequate at maths, and most of that is for passing the exams. I think most of the day to day maths cod be handled by your average twelve year old.

And still so many discount it as a career path as they are 'no good at maths'...

One of the things that is good about Curriculum for Excellence in Scotland (the new Scottish 3-18 curriculum, for which the first exams were the Nat 5s GCSEs equivalent in, iirc, 2014, with the first new Highers the following year and Advanced Highers the year after) - and for which it is criticised by some , is that it is about teaching how to apply knowledge across subjects, not just rote learning. It's been applied better in done subjects than others - but in Maths, the greatest criticism has been been unjustly the "impossible" questions where candidates actually have to work out how to use the maths principles they have been taught.

I agree that some of it involves English comprehension - but there is usually also a diagram that also "describes" the problem.

With hindsight, ds wouldn't have been able to "pass" the early assessment in primary as he was a very late reader (only "got" it at age 6.5 - but went on to get a B for English at Higher) so wouldn't have understood the downloaded test. But he's just got his Advanced Higher Maths result - an A