To ask if those panicking about Brexit realise they've been had?

[Growingboys]

Honestly, it's pathetic.

This is Project Fear mark 2, spin designed to stop Brexit happening. Politicians and wonks hope that if they spread enough fear around, which is what all these ridiculous 'prepping' threads are, they will stop us leaving the EU.

Everybody needs to calm the fuck down, stop digging their underground food stores/adding some more tins to the Ocado order, and realise this is spin, pure and simple. The world will continue to turn, and food will continue to be on supermarket shelves, regardless of what happens with Brexit.

I am very sad at the lack of sense and backbone so many people are showing here, regardless of views on Brexit.

I'm off to have a gin and put my feet up. I might even eat something from my freezer tonight rather than save it for armageddon #dicingwithdeath

The political orthodoxy doesn't intend to enact Brexit in any meaningful sense, so they are having a pop at whipping up hysteria.

This "hysteria" could be countered by arguments outlining the benefits of Brexit.

So, I'll ask again, what are the benefits of Brexit? Give me one, just one, thats all I ask.

So, I'll ask again, what are the benefits of Brexit? Give me one, just one, thats all I ask.

It validates some people's xenophobia. Pure and simple.

That's the latest Brexiteer trope - this isn't a meaningful Brexit. TM isn't doing it properly. So shit for brains like Boris and Davis went because they couldn't make it as wonderful as it was going to be.
Laugh. My. Fecking. Arse. Off.

This "hysteria" could be countered by arguments outlining the benefits of Brexit.

Forget outlining the benefits... how about just having a plan. ANY plan.

The reason we haven't heard from the government is that they haven't a clue. They've had two years and they still don't even know what they want.

So, I'll ask again, what are the benefits of Brexit? Give me one, just one, thats all I ask.

Ok, let's pick one. The removal from the British constitution of legislative competence by an external entity with which the British electorate, and their representatives, have by design no ability to propose or repeal legislation.

This is an element of self-determination, something for which millions have given their actual lives willingly in the last century or slightly more, so your appraisal of this as less important than employment or the availability of baked beans is a matter for yourself. People's priorities differ, of course, we can all respect that.

I certainly haven't been 'had'. My entire industry is pulling out of the U.K in the event of no deal. They've been completely transparent about it. So I lose not only my job, but career and means of supporting my son. I won't be able to pay my mortgage, for food, or any of the basics.

I'll take your word for it though that it's all be fine. I'm sure the government will supplement my salary and fund me to retrain.

Or not.

So if I want to put a bit of extra food by to buy me some time to find new work in what will be an oversaturated job market, I will.

as the details of the Remain leaning government’s agreeemtn with the EU are not known

Ahahahahaha! "Remain-leaning government"!

That's priceless!

What drugs are you on and where can I get some? (I hope we can still get them after Brexit.)

Happy, content people are a nightmare for a government, they can't be "directed" and controlled.

But frightened people - that's a different story!! They're malleable, they can be driven in any direction you like if you sow the right seeds.

The "War of Terror" is one example - despite the fact that attacks on UK soil got nowhere near the levels they did when the IRA were active, with a judicious use of media and scare stories they managed to bring in hundreds of new laws to control us, eroded our rights & we all cheered them for doing it.

When I see all this panicking and stockpiling my first thought is "Who benefits from this?".

Certainly not the fat cat business friends of the MP's eh???

The removal from the British constitution of legislative competence by an external entity with which the British electorate, and their representatives, have by design no ability to propose or repeal legislation.

This "external entity" had British representatives elected by the British people.

This is an element of self-determination, something for which millions have given their actual lives willingly in the last century

Does self determination count when adhering to WTO rules and regs? People gave their lives fighting against discrimination and far right extremism. Two things on the rise again post referendum.

Hasbeeneatingapotato, remember on top of those amazing results you've just listed you will also have a warm, fuzzy feeling that your poverty is entirely British without any pesty co-agreed EU regulations aimed at facilitating free trade to contaminate them. That will make it all okay, right?

So if I want to put a bit of extra food by to buy me some time to find new work in what will be an oversaturated job market, I will.

You'd be better off retraining now or moving jobs now surely? That'd be more use than hiding a tin of beans in your knicker drawer......

Ok, let's pick one. The removal from the British constitution of legislative competence by an external entity with which the British electorate, and their representatives, have by design no ability to propose or repeal legislation.

The "democratic deficit in the EU" argument would have considerably more weight if we didn't have such a democratic deficit in the UK.

The only elections I have ever been able to vote in where my vote actually counted for something were the European Parliament elections, and 37% of the UK electorate have voted to take away my right to vote in those elections, in the name of "democracy".

So now the only vote I have is a protest vote in the Tory safe seat where I am unfortunately registered to vote.

@ImAIdoot - you know we had elected MEPs and UK government appointed Commissioners, right?
We will still be bound by the ECHR - we helped set it up.

Since you ask... yes I am aware. I am also aware that EU-third country free trade treaties are unlikely to generate as large a benefit as a bilateral deal between UK and third country. That’s a self evident fact given the EU will trade off UK and French producer interests.

On the WTO won’t let it. I will divert and ask whether you are suggesting that we should keep high tariffs for the sake of it? No? I hope you want to keep them for the sake of a better negotiating position. Me too, but if it’s too painful short term then they have to go. Balance of payments is an issue, but it’s an issue now and no-one seems to care and many laugh at Trump for suggesting it is an issue. The arguments here are complex and I’ll skip them.

On the negotiation and WTO scheduled point. I note that a lot of the issue comes about from splitting the schedule between rEU and the UK. Some nations export more to one than the other. Even An equal split is a disaster let alone a GDP proportional or population proportional one. That’s a big reason why this is an issue. Carrying the same tariffs forwards is a no-brainier for most as a “post negotiation negotiation” will be able to improve on things dramatically from the non-optimal EU-third country deal in place now. It makes no real sense to jettison that if you are a third country. Now making noise beforehand to try to swing the start point of post Brexit trade talks makes sense though. See any negotiation training book, or just look at Trump.

Given the above you appear to be arguing in favour of the UK having it’s own external trade policy? Am I wrong?

Would love to stay and debate more however I need to go earn a living.

Ok, let's pick one. The removal from the British constitution of legislative competence by an external entity with which the British electorate, and their representatives, have by design no ability to propose or repeal legislation.

You do know, I presume, that EU laws are made by the European Parliament, and that those MEPs we elect go there to represent us.

Also, that laws are proposed by the council of ministers. UK approved those proposed items of legislation 2466 times, abstained 70 times, and voted no 56 times. Hardly the case that we aren't getting our own way.

And the European Parliament, being elected by PR, is more representative than our parliament, in which no government has taken as much as 50% of the popular vote for decades.

Two things on the rise again post referendum.

They're also on the rise in Europe as a whole...

Society always swings from pole to pole. We're long overdue another big scrap anyway, this is probably the longest period we've had with no significant war in Europe. Certainly the longest period that the UK hasn't had a fight with France....

By fuck, how would you lot survive if there was actually something serious going on?

Except retaining doesn't do anything about the supply chain disruption that we've all been warned about. Changing jobs is great, but it doesn't actually do anything about the big risk that the government has named and industry says they can't help with.

Next, I look forward to SlartiAardvark's advice on how to unblock guttering: step one, ask yourself if you should retain for a new job, leave your old one and find a new one in your new field. Then, if you haven't already ended up with damp in your house, consider getting a ladder and going up to have a look at your guttering...

Just as a quick check on the wisdom of all the people on this forum about matters pertaining to Brexit: can anyone give me an accurate figure on just how many treaties, agreements, arrangements and legal framework (such as the pharmaceutical regulatory framework mentioned above) are going to have to be torn up and re-created in British law, somehow, within the next 8 months? Anyone? Just a number?

I don't entirely blame the public - the referendum campaigns were bloody awful, everything to do with party political games and nothing to do with information. Information in this country has been almost entirely destroyed and co-opted into PR, aka, propaganda.

But the question I ask might have been a good one to ask oneself before voting.

Already posted on another thread but it appears pretty much nobody is happy with the way Brexit is going. news.sky.com/story/public-opinion-is-shifting-sharply-against-brexit-sky-data-poll-reveals-11453220

Unfortunately, I suspect leave voters who are not happy will just blame TM for not negotiating well or the EU for being unfair. They won't accept that the Unicorn promises by the leave campaign were never going to be fulfilled. "Cake and eat it", "We hold all the cards". Johnson and Gove should be held fully accountable for all the misleading lies they told during the campaign, but I bet they won't be.

SlartiAardvark believe me, I'm trying. I'm not just sitting right and hoping for the best. I've been applying for anything my experience and qualifications match, but it's proving difficult finding anything that'll cover the mortgage, full time childcare, and food.

I'm saving as much money as I can between now and April so I can throw that at retraining. No idea what as.

Brexit careers advice anyone ?

@WrongOnTheInternet - I think the legislative plan is to drop everything into UK law and then unpick and rewrite as and when.

@hasbeeneatingapotato I'm so sorry to hear this. The suggestion that you could retrain in a few months clearly shows the level of skill of employment of the average Brexiteer.

Some people train for years to get where they are. It's known as skills and education. It's no surprise that Brexiteers and education appear to be a mutually exclusive concept.

This "external entity" had British representatives elected by the British people.

Ok, so your problem is that you don't understand the structure of the EU and how legislation/regulation works in it. Not a crime! It's all a bit Kafkaesque, really I suppose.

The bodies with elected representatives from the UK cannot table bills verbatim, repeal them etc. without the say-so of the European Commission. This is the body that gets to say which laws are proposed and in what form, and repeals rely on its say-so in effect. Even the ability of member states to amend before implementation can be limited or overridden by it. The European Commission is not elected, it is comprised of selected civil servants from member states whose explicitly sworn duty is to not represent the interests of their state, but of the EU itself. It can be wholly sacked by the representative bodies, in which case the same unelected executive is reconstituted by the same means, with the same oaths.

So much of it won't actually be working when we leave then. Has everyone got that? Most of the laws and frameworks we need to keep current society working will not be in place. There was never any plan to deal with Brexit. The closest to it is the Chequers agreement, just put in place now. That was always very obvious. If there had been, I would have listened: I am not unaware of the difficulties within the EU.

Excuse me sounding disgusted, but I am: absolutely disgusted with those whole farcical mess and the struggling to find appropriate term unbelievably complacent, impossibly stupid, overprivileged self-obsessed aristocrats who've collectively brought all of us to this point.

Britain and education, along with information, are mutually exclusive points. Look at the price tag it carries now.